if 2 entires have relatinships between then if we connect one of them to 3, all other connections will take place automatic
2012-05-18 13913, 2012
brianfreud
I *really* wish that actually happened :D
2012-05-18 13914, 2012
dubwai
it's better solution then make "fake" and empty entires
2012-05-18 13929, 2012
brianfreud
what do you define as a "fake" entry?
2012-05-18 13956, 2012
dubwai
legal name eniter just for connecting to other
2012-05-18 13956, 2012
reosarevok
One that won't get releases (like a legal name)
2012-05-18 13957, 2012
xplt joined the channel
2012-05-18 13937, 2012
reosarevok
brianfreud: lol, that Marauders thing is wtftastic
2012-05-18 13953, 2012
brianfreud
Honestly, why do releases matter? Is MB is a music encyclopedia, should not just having works, ARs, or even just being a musician count? ;)
2012-05-18 13956, 2012
brianfreud
reosarevok, hehe
2012-05-18 13943, 2012
reosarevok
brianfreud: IMO, yes. But I can understand why it feels silly to have an alternate name of the same person just because he credited works to his legal name
2012-05-18 13902, 2012
brianfreud is quite proud of http://musicbrainz.org/artist/72c536dc-7137-4477-a521-567eeb840fa8/relationships - I just have to find time someday to finish entering all the dates for his compositions/arrangements
2012-05-18 13905, 2012
reosarevok
Sadly, I don't have a better solution
2012-05-18 13937, 2012
reosarevok
(that still lets us use the correct credits... although some people might argue it doesn't even matter)
2012-05-18 13950, 2012
brianfreud
reosarevok, I've long suggested adding "Current legal name", "Birth name", and possibly, "Christened (or the equivalent) as" fields to artists
2012-05-18 13901, 2012
dubwai
it's bad becuase in future someone may add release to "fake" entire instead of main artistit title
2012-05-18 13916, 2012
brianfreud
or some sort of expanded name support, to allow for more than 1 non-typo name
2012-05-18 13935, 2012
reosarevok
brianfreud: well, we have that now as "legal name" aliases...
2012-05-18 13940, 2012
dubwai
then it must be edit manualy what take more time, then now to connect all performance names if it more then 2
2012-05-18 13943, 2012
reosarevok
(they can even get dates)
2012-05-18 13946, 2012
brianfreud
hell, "Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart" wasn't even the name he used while alive :P
2012-05-18 13926, 2012
reosarevok
brianfreud: problem with that is the cases where you need two or more separate performance names with their own artist, but songs for both should be credited to the same legal entity
2012-05-18 13909, 2012
brianfreud
ie, Tori Amos performing as both "Santa" and "Tori Amos" on the same release?
2012-05-18 13914, 2012
reosarevok
Of course, you could just leave the legal artist for those, but it feels kinda "asymetric"
2012-05-18 13936, 2012
reosarevok
I was thinking of the various projects of people like Aphex Twin
2012-05-18 13952, 2012
reosarevok
I mean, "Aphex Twin" didnt write an AFX song
2012-05-18 13905, 2012
brianfreud
sure, but I'd also want to support listing names more correctly.
2012-05-18 13907, 2012
reosarevok
But you'd want them all in the same list for writer
2012-05-18 13918, 2012
reosarevok
(well, I would at least)
2012-05-18 13942, 2012
reosarevok
Same writer, same IPI, etc
2012-05-18 13912, 2012
brianfreud
Even with ACs, for example, I recently had drsaunde comment on an older edit of mine, complaining that the middle initial was not on either of the person's 2 album covers, even though it is in the name in the booklet's lyrics credit, and it is in his ASCAP listed name.
2012-05-18 13939, 2012
reosarevok
Really, the thing is that the legal name artist should not be related to the performance names as much as englobe them
2012-05-18 13955, 2012
brianfreud
what is the legal name though?
2012-05-18 13900, 2012
brianfreud
that's always the problem that comes up.
2012-05-18 13907, 2012
reosarevok doesn't even care
2012-05-18 13913, 2012
brianfreud
example:
2012-05-18 13900, 2012
reosarevok
I mean, I'd want that blob to exist even if all we know is the two performance names are the same person, but we don't even know the gender and much less the name
2012-05-18 13924, 2012
brianfreud
Born as: Joannes Chrisostomos Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart
2012-05-18 13925, 2012
brianfreud
Today known (in the English world) best as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
2012-05-18 13929, 2012
reosarevok
(and that blob would get the writing credits, the identifiers like IPIs, the birth date, etc)
2012-05-18 13956, 2012
reosarevok
The blob could have all those as "legal names", it's not even if we needed a limit
2012-05-18 13906, 2012
xplt
Enlarging of Amazon's images wasn't fixed :(
2012-05-18 13930, 2012
reosarevok
You'd probably need to choose one for display if only because people wouldn't like arriving to a nameless blob-page, but...
2012-05-18 13943, 2012
brianfreud
reosarevok, +1 to multiple name support, though I'd drop the "legal" in favor of a list of possible - married name, legal name, baptism name, birth name, etc.
2012-05-18 13954, 2012
brianfreud
question is, which name then actually shows up top on the page?
2012-05-18 13958, 2012
reosarevok
It'd be like the MBIDs, "we display one but all of them have the same importance, really"
2012-05-18 13910, 2012
reosarevok
IMO, "whatever"
2012-05-18 13926, 2012
reosarevok
As long as it is reconigzable as that person, I don't care
2012-05-18 13942, 2012
reosarevok
"The artist formerly known as Prince"
2012-05-18 13943, 2012
reosarevok
:p
2012-05-18 13907, 2012
reosarevok
A random one of the list each time you refresh
2012-05-18 13911, 2012
reosarevok
It doesn't even matter
2012-05-18 13920, 2012
brianfreud
So if you ended up on a page titled "Joannes Chrisostomos Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart", "Madonna Ciccone", or "Prince Rogers Nelson", you'd be fine with it?
2012-05-18 13926, 2012
brianfreud
(WA Mozart, Madonna, Prince)
2012-05-18 13943, 2012
reosarevok
I would
2012-05-18 13956, 2012
reosarevok
But my point is that it wouldn't really substitute the normal artist page
2012-05-18 13901, 2012
brianfreud
I think that last is where most (though not me :P) would disagree
2012-05-18 13912, 2012
brianfreud
wait, but that's what I am asking.
2012-05-18 13919, 2012
reosarevok
Maybe I've been doing too many syntax trees :p
2012-05-18 13922, 2012
brianfreud
What name actually shows on the "normal" artist page?
2012-05-18 13951, 2012
dubwai
the name what you see on largest % of releases
2012-05-18 13954, 2012
reosarevok
Whatever performance name is used
2012-05-18 13907, 2012
reosarevok
Even if it's the same as (one of / the) legal name(s)
2012-05-18 13919, 2012
brianfreud
reosarevok, so "AC pages" replace "artist pages" entirely?
2012-05-18 13902, 2012
brianfreud
the rest of what you've described sounds like Discogs' anv pages, but even they pick one "central" name
2012-05-18 13926, 2012
reosarevok
brianfreud: if anything, it should sound more like ISNI's
2012-05-18 13912, 2012
reosarevok
The "person entity" as a "bag" that surrounds everything related to it
2012-05-18 13920, 2012
reosarevok
Including every artist page for the same person
2012-05-18 13925, 2012
brianfreud looks, never seen their site befire
2012-05-18 13928, 2012
brianfreud
*before
2012-05-18 13958, 2012
reosarevok
I haven't seen the site, I just assume they operate like that since AFAIK they identify actual people rather than "names" or "performers"
2012-05-18 13903, 2012
reosarevok
(well, not in depth)
2012-05-18 13928, 2012
brianfreud
ugh, slow site
2012-05-18 13930, 2012
reosarevok
But it'd be some kind of "artist group" that stores the basic information common to all the "manifestations" of that artist
2012-05-18 13918, 2012
brianfreud
lol, Madonna lists in search as "Ciccone, M."
2012-05-18 13937, 2012
reosarevok
Say, the "artist group" concept could have an ID, a birth date, place, a death date, place, a list of names...
2012-05-18 13953, 2012
reosarevok
An IPI (or, well, for what we've seen, more than one...)
2012-05-18 13909, 2012
reosarevok mehs at whoever does the assignment and at their dupes
2012-05-18 13916, 2012
brianfreud
The ISNI approach doesn't really address my question;
2012-05-18 13955, 2012
brianfreud
their answer to "what name is at the top of the 'normal' artist page" is the ISNI #. I doubt "0000 0001 0782 262X" at the top of the Madonna page would make anyone happy.
2012-05-18 13909, 2012
reosarevok
Not at the top of the Madonna page
2012-05-18 13921, 2012
reosarevok
But maybe at the top of a page which has the Madonna page inside of it
2012-05-18 13945, 2012
brianfreud
well, at top of the only page I can find for her at ISNI
(although I'm sure some people might have comments on how to make it even better)
2012-05-18 13914, 2012
ehrgeiz
i'd crop the white border and tighten dynamic range a bit. but good scan.
2012-05-18 13925, 2012
reosarevok
As I said, I might be doing too much syntax lately
2012-05-18 13932, 2012
xplt
reosarevok: ok, good. Thank you! :)
2012-05-18 13946, 2012
dubwai
reosarevok: also i think it will be good to add to wiki or docs info that if someone want to crop existing cover it will be better done by lossless jpeg transformation
2012-05-18 13954, 2012
reosarevok
But syntax has a lot of apparent "duplication" that, if you look closely, is not duplication at all, since it represents a different thing
2012-05-18 13915, 2012
kepstin-work
hmm, with a lossless jpg transformation, you can only crop to multiples of... 8 pixels? iirc.
2012-05-18 13937, 2012
kepstin-work
for many cases that would be good enough, I suppose.
2012-05-18 13938, 2012
reosarevok
And I'd argue our "artist" model just isn't too good at representing "real people"
2012-05-18 13929, 2012
reosarevok
The point about that is that it doesn't even need a "name". I mean, an actual name (one chosen legal name?) is ideal
2012-05-18 13916, 2012
reosarevok
But if I didn't know that Aphex Twin is Richard David James, I could call that group "Aphex Twin / AFX / Caustic Window" and it would still be equally meaningful
