hawke_: can you give some more details on your specific situation?
2012-01-18 01827, 2012
hawke_
In this case I am thinking of the Jonathan Coulton Artificial Heart level four release (a special edition, basically) — the CD edition was available in September; the special edition has some schedule slippage until January
2012-01-18 01843, 2012
VxJasonxV
hawke_, release dates are usually "street dates"
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
VxJasonxV
digital and instant? release date is the public availability date.
2012-01-18 01811, 2012
VxJasonxV
analog and mailed? what warp said.
2012-01-18 01833, 2012
hawke_
So four months before it was actually available? That seems wrong.
2012-01-18 01842, 2012
VxJasonxV
eh?
2012-01-18 01851, 2012
hawke_
The RG was available in September, the release (edition) was not shipped (or received of course) until January despite a planned ship date of 2011-11 or 2011-12
2012-01-18 01811, 2012
VxJasonxV
the regular CD has one release date, the special edition has another
2012-01-18 01820, 2012
hawke_
OK, and my question is: what should that date be?
2012-01-18 01826, 2012
hawke_
Given that it’s not available in stores
2012-01-18 01828, 2012
kovacsur
basically, whatever the label says.
2012-01-18 01830, 2012
VxJasonxV
you can have multiple release events.
2012-01-18 01835, 2012
hawke_
and only shipped directly from the artist
2012-01-18 01849, 2012
hawke_
(or whatever fulfillment company, I suppose)
2012-01-18 01858, 2012
kovacsur
Release dates for small labels and self-releases are usually totally arbitrary
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
hawke_
but certainly *ordered* directly from the artist
2012-01-18 01812, 2012
warp
hawke_: whatever the date is that the first group of persons received their copy I guess.
2012-01-18 01820, 2012
hawke_
So, received date then.
2012-01-18 01815, 2012
kovacsur
If there's no source for a specific date, just enter the month or year
2012-01-18 01856, 2012
hawke_
yeah, I’m only planning on using the month
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
warp
I wouldn't consider it much of a release unless someone (from the general public) has access to it
2012-01-18 01806, 2012
hawke_
since I don’t know the date on which the first person receive their shipment
2012-01-18 01819, 2012
hawke_
warp: Lots of people from the general public have access to it, you just had to order it.
2012-01-18 01835, 2012
hawke_
It’s hardly the first limited edition release we have in MB
2012-01-18 01858, 2012
warp
hawke_: according to you it hasn't shipped yet, so no one (other than the artist and publisher, etc..) has access to it yet.
2012-01-18 01810, 2012
hawke_
warp: I received mine yesterday.
2012-01-18 01815, 2012
hawke_
It shipped this month
2012-01-18 01835, 2012
hawke_
I believe others have received it within the last few days.
2012-01-18 01851, 2012
warp
yes, so the release date is roughly this week.
2012-01-18 01855, 2012
kovacsur
I found this in a blog entry on the artist's page: "Level 4 packages are being assembled RIGHT NOW and the plan is for them to hit the mail this week."
2012-01-18 01807, 2012
kovacsur
So I'd assume entering 2012-01 should be safe
2012-01-18 01811, 2012
hawke_
yup
2012-01-18 01838, 2012
hawke_
They obviously did hit the mail this month, so… :-)
2012-01-18 01858, 2012
hawke_
Now I just need to figure out how to handle the digital media version…
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
hawke_
we really need medium parts. :-/
2012-01-18 01840, 2012
kepstin-laptop joined the channel
2012-01-18 01845, 2012
hawke_
This medium has overall track numbers 1-194 for each file…
2012-01-18 01812, 2012
hawke_
but they’re also divided into albums within the tags
2012-01-18 01818, 2012
praest76 joined the channel
2012-01-18 01829, 2012
hawke_
So like … “124 Millionaire Girlfriend.ogg” has tags tracknumber: 5 and album: Live at Belly Up Solana Beach 5/14/09
2012-01-18 01827, 2012
ZaphodBeeblebrox joined the channel
2012-01-18 01831, 2012
kovacsur
hawke, do you mean you consider "Everything (everything listed below)" an album?
2012-01-18 01810, 2012
kovacsur
Or is there a separate release with all these tracks on some other site?
2012-01-18 01819, 2012
hawke_
kovacsur: where?
2012-01-18 01840, 2012
hawke_
No
2012-01-18 01842, 2012
kovacsur
hawke_, nevermind, I was looking in the wrong place
2012-01-18 01846, 2012
kovacsur
so where is this release?
2012-01-18 01859, 2012
hawke_
This is a flash drive included with the special edition
2012-01-18 01808, 2012
kovacsur
Oh, I see
2012-01-18 01808, 2012
hawke_
Also: New medium type: music box! :-D
2012-01-18 01832, 2012
praest76 joined the channel
2012-01-18 01847, 2012
praest76 joined the channel
2012-01-18 01807, 2012
brianfreud joined the channel
2012-01-18 01846, 2012
reosarevok hates people
2012-01-18 01812, 2012
ianmcorvidae
delete
2012-01-18 01814, 2012
ianmcorvidae
but yeah.
2012-01-18 01823, 2012
kepstin-laptop
move to artist annotation then delete?
2012-01-18 01808, 2012
reosarevok
Well, yeah
2012-01-18 01814, 2012
reosarevok
Add the info that it gives first
2012-01-18 01820, 2012
reosarevok
But still
2012-01-18 01833, 2012
reosarevok
It kinda feels like someone is being "I'll drop this here and maybe you can add the info" :p
2012-01-18 01833, 2012
kepstin-laptop
pretty fancy censored musicbrainz logo
2012-01-18 01844, 2012
praest76 joined the channel
2012-01-18 01858, 2012
kepstin-laptop
slightly annoying to me, I tend to use middle-click on musicbrainz logo to open a new tab on the musicbrainz site ;)
2012-01-18 01813, 2012
reosarevok
Yeah, me too
2012-01-18 01833, 2012
reosarevok
:p
2012-01-18 01859, 2012
hawke_
I was gonna say, isn’t that the point?
2012-01-18 01852, 2012
ocharles has also done that
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
ocharles
surprised you guys haven't user scripted it away
2012-01-18 01803, 2012
ocharles
:P
2012-01-18 01830, 2012
reosarevok has been reading wikipedia caches a lot today :p
2012-01-18 01844, 2012
reosarevok
(I didn't want to deactivate the JS because I'm too lazy)
2012-01-18 01843, 2012
kovacsur
I was about to suggest signing in and editing monobook.css, but then realized that would be even more work
2012-01-18 01845, 2012
kepstin-laptop
when I'm doing musicbrainz stuff, I tend to use the japanese wikipedia more than the english one, anyways :/
2012-01-18 01853, 2012
nikki
ocharles: well *I* already user scripted almost the entire header away ages ago :P
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
praest76 joined the channel
2012-01-18 01803, 2012
ocharles
heh
2012-01-18 01804, 2012
nikki
you could just turn off js
2012-01-18 01810, 2012
reosarevok
kepstin-laptop, tsk
2012-01-18 01826, 2012
reosarevok
It's an UK band not an Irish one
2012-01-18 01828, 2012
nikki
opera makes it easy to turn off js for a site, you clearly need a better browser if you can't do it in yours :D
2012-01-18 01838, 2012
kepstin-laptop notes that it's 13:37 right now here ;)
2012-01-18 01839, 2012
reosarevok
Northern Ireland, UK
2012-01-18 01852, 2012
kepstin-laptop
reosarevok: well, then you can fix that ;)
2012-01-18 01856, 2012
reosarevok
I did :p
2012-01-18 01820, 2012
kovacsur
Wow, you seriously copied that blurb into the annotation?
2012-01-18 01832, 2012
kepstin-laptop
kovacsur: well, why not.
2012-01-18 01841, 2012
reosarevok
Yeah
2012-01-18 01855, 2012
kovacsur
It's all over the internet, could even be copyrighted for all we know, but fine with me
2012-01-18 01810, 2012
reosarevok
If we get a complaint, we'll happily remove it
2012-01-18 01828, 2012
kepstin-laptop
hey, the person who added it to the wiki had to agree with the CC licensing already
2012-01-18 01831, 2012
kepstin-laptop
so it's their fault ;)
2012-01-18 01837, 2012
kovacsur
heheh
2012-01-18 01840, 2012
reosarevok
Yeah
2012-01-18 01854, 2012
reosarevok imports their release from iTunes
2012-01-18 01812, 2012
reosarevok
And deletes the page
2012-01-18 01827, 2012
hawke_
Anyone know of a list of musicbox tunes/rolls/whatever that medium is called?
2012-01-18 01846, 2012
kepstin-laptop
man, we delete wiki pages almost as much as wikipedia does ;)
2012-01-18 01815, 2012
reosarevok
(random one)
2012-01-18 01834, 2012
kepstin-laptop
heh, you can get a music box that plays Michael Jackson's Thriller.
2012-01-18 01814, 2012
hawke_
Nice…I should add a few of those to MB
2012-01-18 01819, 2012
hawke_
“Single?”
2012-01-18 01802, 2012
hawke_
recording just seems so wrong for these
2012-01-18 01819, 2012
hawke_
much like midi files, piano rolls, and a lot of video game music
2012-01-18 01849, 2012
kepstin-laptop
yeah; I know of a bunch of midi game music added as recordings simply because we don't have a better way to represent it
2012-01-18 01833, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I guess it's just a work, but
2012-01-18 01835, 2012
ianmcorvidae
yeah :/
2012-01-18 01837, 2012
reosarevok
Well
2012-01-18 01847, 2012
reosarevok
if you are tagging it, you have a recording
2012-01-18 01853, 2012
reosarevok
"recording"
2012-01-18 01858, 2012
hawke_
reosarevok: Not everything in mb exists to be tagged
2012-01-18 01816, 2012
reosarevok
What I mean is that if someone added a recording, that's probably the reason
2012-01-18 01816, 2012
kepstin-laptop notes that http://musicbrainz.org/release/e9573d20-a0d5-4e36-9840-3e32a434e05f is an fun release; it has re-done versions of some of the band's songs done in a style that sounds like it's being played on a music box
2012-01-18 01823, 2012
reosarevok
So he probably has a real "recording" of it
2012-01-18 01840, 2012
hawke_
there’s also a range…some midi files or piano rolls are recordings of what keys were hit on a keyboard when
2012-01-18 01853, 2012
hawke_
whereas music boxes are entirely artificial
2012-01-18 01800, 2012
hawke_
and piano rolls are sometimes hand edited
2012-01-18 01804, 2012
hawke_
as are midi files
2012-01-18 01811, 2012
kepstin-laptop
in particular, with game midi tracks there are a lot of mp3s floating around where someone has run the midi through a synthesizer and recorded it, or alternately just recorded the game playing the music.
2012-01-18 01829, 2012
hawke_
but then video games, is the record the … commands sent to the audio chip to produce sound, or is it the sound itself?
2012-01-18 01832, 2012
hawke_
*recording
2012-01-18 01803, 2012
kepstin-laptop
the annoying thing is that they'll sound different depending on the person's sound card :/
2012-01-18 01806, 2012
hawke_
yup
2012-01-18 01837, 2012
hawke_
yet another layer to MB-recordings/work-thingies/whatever. :-)
2012-01-18 01857, 2012
kepstin-laptop
midi files are kind of arrangements, really
2012-01-18 01811, 2012
hawke_
Or representations of the work itself, yeah
2012-01-18 01817, 2012
hawke_
depending on who created them
2012-01-18 01817, 2012
ianmcorvidae
arrangements are works too, so what you're saying is midi files are works :)
2012-01-18 01833, 2012
ianmcorvidae
(which I agree with -- we just don't have a good way of grouping those into a 'release')
2012-01-18 01837, 2012
praest76 joined the channel
2012-01-18 01850, 2012
hawke_
ianmcorvidae: Right, I know. But if it’s the original composition instead of an arrangement of a composition…
2012-01-18 01851, 2012
kepstin-laptop
hmm. a release of works, eh
2012-01-18 01808, 2012
ianmcorvidae
makes sense for e.g. books of sheet music as well
2012-01-18 01813, 2012
kepstin-laptop
ianmcorvidae: yeah
2012-01-18 01814, 2012
reosarevok
Not necessarily
2012-01-18 01824, 2012
ianmcorvidae
moves sort of a weird way away from MB's current focus, but
2012-01-18 01829, 2012
reosarevok
A sheet music book is a "manifestation" rather than a work
2012-01-18 01832, 2012
reosarevok
It's just not a recording :p
2012-01-18 01837, 2012
ianmcorvidae
oh, true
2012-01-18 01839, 2012
ianmcorvidae
you with your FRBR
2012-01-18 01845, 2012
reosarevok
Someone change the recording name to manifestation :p
2012-01-18 01801, 2012
ianmcorvidae
does FRBR allow derivative manifestations?
2012-01-18 01815, 2012
ianmcorvidae
I guess it has to
2012-01-18 01836, 2012
ianmcorvidae
heh, we can make it 'manifestation' and have a manifestation type
2012-01-18 01838, 2012
ianmcorvidae
including 'recording'
2012-01-18 01839, 2012
ianmcorvidae
:P
2012-01-18 01855, 2012
hawke_
reosarevok: we need more than that, we’d need the tools to represent stuff other than PCM data
