there is no rule (and there should not be) saying that Name and Sort should use the same characters
2012-11-28 33358, 2012
yindesu
if you looked at my link http://avexnet.jp/list/index.html you'd see that under あ, a variety of starting characters are used, including "a", "e", "i", あ, ア
2012-11-28 33320, 2012
yindesu
because that's how that writing system works. Unicode already has Hiragana and Katakana in the proper sort order, so please change your vote.
2012-11-28 33343, 2012
Freso
yindesu: Using the Russian as an example, https://musicbrainz.org/artist/9ddd7abc-9e1b-471d… doesn't have Tjajkovskij as the alias and Чайковский as the sort name anywhere. I fail to see how the examples validate this, I guess.
2012-11-28 33326, 2012
yindesu
So you want Musicbrainz to be useless to Japanese people because you refuse to accept the writing system practices employed by all the major Japanese labels?
2012-11-28 33331, 2012
Freso
yindesu: Also, if that's how the writing system works, it should sort "M" properly too.
take a good look at how Japanese people order their words, and also read the Japanese guideline stating the fact that they use Latin characters freely as primary names http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Language/Japanese
2012-11-28 33300, 2012
Freso
yindesu: Make up your mind? :) I know the Japanese system doesn't use English sorting (heck, I don't use English sorting on this system), but for all I know (which you just told me), "under あ, a variety of starting characters are used, including "a", "e", "i", あ, ア" - so I'm assuming that katakana/hiragana sorting algorithms are able to properly handle Latin letters in their sorting as well.
2012-11-28 33306, 2012
yindesu
Unicode has Hiragana and Katakana in the correct Japanese order, which is why the sort name should be Hiragana/Katakana, not Latin
2012-11-28 33326, 2012
yindesu
Unicode has Hiragana and Katakana in the correct Japanese order, which is why the sort name should be Hiragana/Katakana, not Latin
2012-11-28 33321, 2012
yindesu
"I'm assuming that katakana/hiragana sorting algorithms are able to properly handle Latin letters in their sorting as well." <-- do you understand how character encoding works in computer systems? in any case, in Unicode, that's not how it works. The order of Latin characters doesn't change on a language basis.
it's because they sort by Hiragana/Katakana. There is no magic that puts Latin characters in Japanese order
2012-11-28 33345, 2012
Freso
yindesu: TBH, I'm pretty indifferent about it. The fact that it's not mentioned on https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Artist/Aliases despite of decent amount of prominent editors who dabble with Japanese stuff rings a warning with me though. I have a feeling it should be discussed on -style, possibly as an RFC for an amendment to that page.
2012-11-28 33307, 2012
yindesu
the style guidelines are all woefully out of date so feel free.
2012-11-28 33311, 2012
Freso
*despite our
2012-11-28 33335, 2012
yindesu
I'd appreciate it if you don't vote No when you claim to be indifferent (and not understand the writing system in question)
2012-11-28 33342, 2012
Freso
yindesu: Like I said, I'm pretty indifferent about it. I've got plenty of RFC's on my to-do list, so it wouldn't be done in any timely manner.
2012-11-28 33354, 2012
yindesu
Freso: 1) Are you changing your vote? 2) What Language style guideline has rules about Sort Names?
2012-11-28 33307, 2012
yindesu
As far as I know, none of them talk about Locale-primary sort names
2012-11-28 33322, 2012
Freso
yindesu: 1) If the style issue is cleared up, I will. Knowing that CatCat (and possibly nikki) and other ja editors read the logs, they'll be able check the edit too and give their input. My one vote won't stop the edit. 2) None that I know of. :)
2012-11-28 33304, 2012
yindesu
Freso: 1) Yes, one No vote does stop an edit. 2) As I said, all the style guidelines are woefully out of date but that doesn't change the order of Unicode characters.
Freso is not convinced that the sort name for a Japanese artist using Latin characters should be using Japanese characters, not Latin characters (that's my understanding of our discussion)
_5moufl: Yo ucan see the tracklists in the side-bar : MB, MB+times, EAC links (I should do a new great screen pitcute for this http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/89036
2012-11-28 33306, 2012
jesus2099
yindesu: voted
2012-11-28 33329, 2012
reosarevok joined the channel
2012-11-28 33312, 2012
jesus2099
Hey if there are any japanese music editors out here, please if you could *+1* this RFC to allow links to utamap lyrics http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/STYLE-16… I did all the bumf already (it’s both legal and hot link OK)
2012-11-28 33334, 2012
_5moufl
I must have another script interfering then, I don't see it
2012-11-28 33302, 2012
jesus2099
aïe aïe aïe ma qué, encole oune beugue ?
2012-11-28 33323, 2012
jesus2099
_5moufl: go into a release, it should appear in sidebar’s RELEASE INFORMATION, below LENGTH, there should be a TRACKLISTS entry for instance at http://musicbrainz.org/release/82459d34-16d5-43ac… I see it
2012-11-28 33327, 2012
jesus2099
it shows « Tracklists : MB, MB+times, EAC » for me
2012-11-28 33313, 2012
_5moufl
oh, yes, no support for https though
2012-11-28 33306, 2012
jesus2099
ah maybe, I don’t use https so I couldn’t notice that… do you have another tracklist format you would like when I update for HTTPS support ?
2012-11-28 33327, 2012
jesus2099
I mean I could take the oppoturnity to add some other useful patterns when I update the script
