bitmap wouldn't mind if mbserver was in python, because he'd be able to understand it
2011-06-07 15818, 2011
bitmap doesn't speak perl
2011-06-07 15824, 2011
nikki
learn perl then :P
2011-06-07 15825, 2011
ianmcorvidae
eh, perl isn't that hard
2011-06-07 15832, 2011
ianmcorvidae
I hadn't touched a line of perl before this summer
2011-06-07 15846, 2011
bitmap
probably not, I just never got around to it
2011-06-07 15848, 2011
ianmcorvidae
and I'm certainly no perl master but I can certainly read through it
2011-06-07 15806, 2011
luks
I really dislike the "modern" Perl
2011-06-07 15812, 2011
bitmap
I have a few perl books I was supposed to read but never did
2011-06-07 15817, 2011
ianmcorvidae
and, well, perl itself isn't so bad... it's more Moose/Catalyst/etc
2011-06-07 15833, 2011
ianmcorvidae
which is a different way of saying what luks just did, I suppose
2011-06-07 15847, 2011
nikki
luks: oh?
2011-06-07 15801, 2011
luks
it's trying to be too magic
2011-06-07 15834, 2011
ianmcorvidae
ruby syndrome? :P
2011-06-07 15822, 2011
luks
the funny part is that object creation is the bottleck of the current server code
2011-06-07 15831, 2011
luks
which is really a wtf
2011-06-07 15853, 2011
ppawel joined the channel
2011-06-07 15826, 2011
ocharles
luks: I don't think it's *trying* to be magic, it's more that unless you want to live with a load of gotchas, you have to re-invent the rules
2011-06-07 15810, 2011
ocharles
I'm not sure the object system is the bottleneck either, but it's a performance problem in some cases, that's for sure (and I agree, that's a shame and confusing)
2011-06-07 15814, 2011
ocharles
Then again, I prefer Moose than Python objects, so I don't think we'll ever share opinions here :)
2011-06-07 15851, 2011
luks
well, the number of functions to wrap/create methods is really too large
2011-06-07 15804, 2011
luks
it's hard to compose them in your head to get the global picture
2011-06-07 15829, 2011
luks
I'd say that's my main reason to not like Moose
2011-06-07 15852, 2011
ocharles
which part has too much? our architecture, or moose's api?
2011-06-07 15842, 2011
luks
moose
2011-06-07 15811, 2011
luks
you have to read many files to get an idea what the method actually consists of
2011-06-07 15812, 2011
ocharles
interesting, I honestly haven't heard complaints about Moose's api before. I mean, it's just Perl still, but with the addition of 'has', roles and method modifiers
2011-06-07 15834, 2011
ocharles
right, but how else are you going to remove the repetition?
2011-06-07 15801, 2011
ocharles
I think we have different styles too, I think you abstract later than I do
2011-06-07 15807, 2011
luks
but explicitly calling other methods, like I'd have to do in Python, or Java, or C++
2011-06-07 15816, 2011
luks
by
2011-06-07 15819, 2011
ocharles
Yes, but then you still have to remember to call those methods, it's still repetition
2011-06-07 15836, 2011
luks
my problem is reading the code, not writing it :)
2011-06-07 15858, 2011
luks
if I forget to call a method, it's completely my fault
2011-06-07 15807, 2011
ocharles
yes, but I'd rather not have that risk
2011-06-07 15813, 2011
ocharles
because I do forget things a lot
2011-06-07 15835, 2011
ocharles
If the framework can force that for me, then I tend to play to it's strengths
2011-06-07 15849, 2011
ocharles
I suppose as I work on this for 6 hours a day, the structure is quite firmly engrained in my head though
2011-06-07 15817, 2011
luks
the edit methods in MB's controllers is what got me thinking about this recently
2011-06-07 15835, 2011
ocharles
the roles?
2011-06-07 15859, 2011
luks
roles, which dynamically create methods, that wrap other methods
2011-06-07 15802, 2011
ocharles
I'm not sure they are done as well as they could be. They worked ok at the time, but now they are becoming a bit hard to work with, I'll agree
2011-06-07 15816, 2011
luks
it was either spending hours to track it down or write what I needed from scratch
2011-06-07 15835, 2011
luks
guess which one I chose? :)
2011-06-07 15848, 2011
ocharles
I see that more as a problem with Catalyst though, not Moose. I don't like the controller = class model anymore
2011-06-07 15805, 2011
luks
I see it as a moose problem
2011-06-07 15815, 2011
luks
because normally you would have to call the other methods
2011-06-07 15816, 2011
ocharles
I prefer that a controller is a collection of objects, one for edit, one for viewing, etc
2011-06-07 15824, 2011
luks
I can follow such calls in my head just fine
2011-06-07 15859, 2011
ocharles nods
2011-06-07 15830, 2011
ocharles
I just haven't managed to decompose things with methods or functions and not have code diverge
2011-06-07 15852, 2011
ocharles
Roles split stuff apart, but at least there's usually a single point to go to, you just have to spend more time to hunt it down
2011-06-07 15819, 2011
ocharles
I'd rather spend more time understanding the abstraction rather than spending time making sure I've updated all usage of a code, especially as Perl is so notorious to parse
2011-06-07 15811, 2011
luks
I always struggle with that, but I just decide that I don't care and go with the more practical solution
2011-06-07 15837, 2011
ocharles
I don't find it practical in the long run, I find it leads to regressions and sloppy coding
2011-06-07 15846, 2011
ocharles
because I start to get very tired of working with the duplication
2011-06-07 15818, 2011
luks
web code is never going to live for too long
2011-06-07 15841, 2011
luks
since I started doing websites I was trying to find a way to abstract it, but then I realized it's a waste of time
2011-06-07 15809, 2011
ocharles
hmm, /artist/edit which works very similar to /url/edit is not going to go away
2011-06-07 15812, 2011
luks
it's pretty much why I accepted jQuery as something that I can use :)
2011-06-07 15830, 2011
luks
all methods on a single class, what kind of API is that? :P
2011-06-07 15816, 2011
ocharles
basically, /artist/edit needs a form, then it needs to submit it, then it submits an edit. I could factor that into a higher order function, or I could use a role to guarantee at least the parts fit together get at pseudo-compile time
2011-06-07 15833, 2011
ocharles
I'm curious to see how the code you wrote looked though
2011-06-07 15859, 2011
ocharles
i'm certainly open to changing things
2011-06-07 15800, 2011
luks
the code I wrote was for splitting artists
2011-06-07 15816, 2011
ocharles
thought so, is the branch public?
2011-06-07 15840, 2011
luks
not yet, don't have access to the machine right now either
2011-06-07 15852, 2011
ocharles
ok, well push it when you get a chance
2011-06-07 15851, 2011
hawke_
Hmm, URL relationships will keep an artist from being deleted?
2011-06-07 15807, 2011
luks
yes
2011-06-07 15838, 2011
luks
I wonder what happened to the artist entry linked to http://127.0.0.1/
even if it's not useful right now, at least keep its MBID
2011-06-07 15807, 2011
ocharles
reosarevok: ooo
2011-06-07 15834, 2011
hawke_
For what, though? What purpose does the MBID serve with no releases, performances, works, nothing by the artist
2011-06-07 15852, 2011
hawke_
I should put myself in Musicbrainz, because hey, I might record something some day!
2011-06-07 15802, 2011
luks
I expect the releases will appear eventually
2011-06-07 15805, 2011
reosarevok
hawke_: the guy has a youtube channel and a myspace
2011-06-07 15812, 2011
reosarevok
So he's clearly a musician of sorts
2011-06-07 15818, 2011
nikki
luks: oh you're optimistic :P
2011-06-07 15826, 2011
luks
well, they have some tracks on myspace
2011-06-07 15804, 2011
luks
nikki: oh, I don't mean added by the artist :)
2011-06-07 15837, 2011
reosarevok
heh
2011-06-07 15853, 2011
reosarevok writes (live, 2009-09-25: Parc del Fòrum, Barcelona, Spain) and imagines some Catalonian guy coming and changing it to (live, 2009-09-25: Parc del Fòrum, Barcelona, Catalunya)
2011-06-07 15825, 2011
nikki has been tempted to write a report for "orphaned" artists like that (or whatever word would be better)
2011-06-07 15834, 2011
luks
I tried keeping those live comments short
2011-06-07 15840, 2011
luks
this is too long, IMO
2011-06-07 15858, 2011
ocharles
gps coordinates, no one can argue with that
2011-06-07 15822, 2011
nikki
maybe just city, country
2011-06-07 15829, 2011
__bartholomule joined the channel
2011-06-07 15836, 2011
nikki
rather than venue city country (unless of course there are two from the same day in different venues
2011-06-07 15808, 2011
nikki
btu that seems unlikely...
2011-06-07 15831, 2011
reosarevok doesn't think it is too long
2011-06-07 15842, 2011
reosarevok thinks it's pretty useful and nice
2011-06-07 15827, 2011
reosarevok
hawke_: you could add Person and UK while deleting the comment ;p
2011-06-07 15801, 2011
luks
heeelp
2011-06-07 15817, 2011
luks
was there a decision about the remix works?
2011-06-07 15833, 2011
luks
or at least, which side is winning? :)
2011-06-07 15813, 2011
reosarevok
luks: "different ARs or ISWC -> new related work, if not, merge" seems to be it
2011-06-07 15807, 2011
luks
or if I have just different remix/producer ARs, merge?
2011-06-07 15815, 2011
luks
s/or/so/
2011-06-07 15836, 2011
reosarevok
luks: can you check it against a works DB?
2011-06-07 15846, 2011
luks
no
2011-06-07 15851, 2011
reosarevok
:(
2011-06-07 15858, 2011
reosarevok
I imagine you could merge
2011-06-07 15810, 2011
reosarevok
What's it?
2011-06-07 15816, 2011
nikki
some people might vote no though
2011-06-07 15824, 2011
nikki got a no vote because one of the works had "mix" in the name :/
