#musicbrainz

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      • pbryan
        Anyone hear about the upcoming Joss Whedon series?

        • 2009-01-16 01623, 2009

      • CStan has left the channel

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      • chefkoch has quit

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      • chefkoch_
        chefkoch_ is now known as chefkoch

        • 2009-01-16 01644, 2009

      • srotta
        I use irssi and Pidgin.

        • 2009-01-16 01602, 2009

      • warp
        pbryan: irssi.

        • 2009-01-16 01609, 2009

      • ruaok is trying to wrap his head around luks' schema email

        • 2009-01-16 01618, 2009

      • luks
        which part?

        • 2009-01-16 01642, 2009

      • ruaok
        > This would mean N:M mapping between releases and IDs.

        • 2009-01-16 01609, 2009

      • ruaok
        which ids does "IDs" refer to?

        • 2009-01-16 01623, 2009

      • luks
        current Album IDs

        • 2009-01-16 01646, 2009

      • ruaok
        so, why does the relationship between the release and the release events needs to change?

        • 2009-01-16 01606, 2009

      • ruaok
        I'm trying to understand why this is:

        • 2009-01-16 01608, 2009

      • ruaok
        Release ID, because the same ID is also used for other releases:

        • 2009-01-16 01617, 2009

      • ruaok
        (second line is quoted too)

        • 2009-01-16 01628, 2009

      • luks
        well, that depends on your definition of release

        • 2009-01-16 01640, 2009

      • luks
        for me, if it's a different product, it's a different release

        • 2009-01-16 01614, 2009

      • ruaok
        because it has a different barcode.

        • 2009-01-16 01651, 2009

      • luks
        there are rare cases when a single release has multiple labels/catalog numbers

        • 2009-01-16 01605, 2009

      • luks
        which is why there is the release_label table in my schema

        • 2009-01-16 01625, 2009

      • luks
        but for most releases it's single barcode, single label, single catalog number

        • 2009-01-16 01635, 2009

      • luks
        so a release is what we currently have in table "release"

        • 2009-01-16 01620, 2009

      • luks
        and the table "album" is really a mix of everything

        • 2009-01-16 01638, 2009

      • ruaok
        the album table is clearly conflated. :)

        • 2009-01-16 01636, 2009

      • nikki
        are you talking about the one on http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/LukasLalinsky/Release… ?

        • 2009-01-16 01644, 2009

      • ruaok
        ya

        • 2009-01-16 01644, 2009

      • luks
        yes

        • 2009-01-16 01650, 2009

      • nikki
        ok

        • 2009-01-16 01635, 2009

      • ruaok
        I see the instance described by a release event as a "product".

        • 2009-01-16 01641, 2009

      • ruaok
        a release is really a... super class.

        • 2009-01-16 01648, 2009

      • nikki
        a release can have multiple countries, can't it?

        • 2009-01-16 01659, 2009

      • nikki
        (as well, I mean, not in that schemathingy)

        • 2009-01-16 01601, 2009

      • ruaok
        not complete without a deriving class.

        • 2009-01-16 01629, 2009

      • luks
        nikki: yes, but that get's too confusing

        • 2009-01-16 01637, 2009

      • luks
        I had a release_event table there, too

        • 2009-01-16 01644, 2009

      • luks
        with date/country pairs

        • 2009-01-16 01647, 2009

      • luks
        but I removed it

        • 2009-01-16 01659, 2009

      • ruaok
        I still don't understand. I should probably think about it in the morning...

        • 2009-01-16 01645, 2009

      • luks
        I don't know if it helps, but here is the example from the mail in the ngs-playground server

        • 2009-01-16 01652, 2009

      • luks
        release group - http://89.103.90.126:5000/release-group/c1adac5d-…

        • 2009-01-16 01603, 2009

      • luks
        release - http://89.103.90.126:5000/release/7bc8207b-a276-4…

        • 2009-01-16 01615, 2009

      • luks
        and you can see two medium objects on the release page

        • 2009-01-16 01628, 2009

      • luks
        which maps exactly the schema from the mail

        • 2009-01-16 01609, 2009

      • luks
        and the data are from http://musicbrainz.org/release/c1adac5d-a176-49e2… and http://musicbrainz.org/release/6816265d-f0ea-4c8b…

        • 2009-01-16 01624, 2009

      • nikki
        in the schemathingy is 'album' the release group and 'release' the current mb release?

        • 2009-01-16 01613, 2009

      • luks
        'release' is a real-world release

        • 2009-01-16 01629, 2009

      • nikki
        oh. yeah

        • 2009-01-16 01631, 2009

      • luks
        the current mb release is something else

        • 2009-01-16 01644, 2009

      • nikki
        is 'album' the release group though?

        • 2009-01-16 01651, 2009

      • luks
        yes

        • 2009-01-16 01602, 2009

      • nikki
        yay I understood it

        • 2009-01-16 01618, 2009

      • nikki
        I still don't like that discs can't have catalogue numbers :/

        • 2009-01-16 01618, 2009

      • ruaok
        I think I'm starting to understand. I think our concepts of release groups are a bit different.

        • 2009-01-16 01649, 2009

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      • chefkoch_
        chefkoch_ is now known as chefkoch

        • 2009-01-16 01603, 2009

      • luks
        the model is almost identical to what SoundUnwound has

        • 2009-01-16 01604, 2009

      • luks
        except they have the release group objects hidden

        • 2009-01-16 01616, 2009

      • luks
        http://www.soundunwound.com/sp/release/view/The+W…

        • 2009-01-16 01621, 2009

      • ruaok
        heh. they also bitched about us not having release groups. :)

        • 2009-01-16 01638, 2009

      • ruaok
        ok, I'm grokking your schema again.

        • 2009-01-16 01603, 2009

      • luks
        they basically pick one release and use it instead of the release group object

        • 2009-01-16 01610, 2009

      • luks
        in the UI layer, that is

        • 2009-01-16 01621, 2009

      • luks
        I don't think it's stored in their DB that way

        • 2009-01-16 01634, 2009

      • ruaok
        now I'm trying to trace how ids change from one schema to the other.

        • 2009-01-16 01622, 2009

      • ruaok
        so, in your plan, most single cd releases would be converted to a release-group.

        • 2009-01-16 01629, 2009

      • luks
        if you had album ID X, accessible on album/X, it will be accessible on release-group/X

        • 2009-01-16 01651, 2009

      • ruaok
        and 70% - 90% would remind unchanged?

        • 2009-01-16 01653, 2009

      • ruaok nods

        • 2009-01-16 01627, 2009

      • luks
        single disc MB releases with no other versions will be completely unchanged

        • 2009-01-16 01634, 2009

      • ruaok
        ok.

        • 2009-01-16 01643, 2009

      • luks
        multi disc releases or different versios will be merged

        • 2009-01-16 01651, 2009

      • luks
        but of course, the IDs are still valid

        • 2009-01-16 01616, 2009

      • ruaok
        old ids will always resolve to the release group?

        • 2009-01-16 01624, 2009

      • luks
        yes

        • 2009-01-16 01656, 2009

      • ruaok
        ok, thats not too bad.

        • 2009-01-16 01619, 2009

      • ruaok
        I'm trying to put myself into the shoes of our customers.

        • 2009-01-16 01627, 2009

      • luks
        the only other option I see is to make them "Medium IDs"

        • 2009-01-16 01630, 2009

      • ruaok
        and I'm trying to think how much effort it will be to migrate.

        • 2009-01-16 01651, 2009

      • ruaok
        I think that is what I was thinking about.

        • 2009-01-16 01608, 2009

      • luks
        so instead of pointing the ID of "The Wall (disc 1)" to The Wall, they would point to the first CD of The Wall

        • 2009-01-16 01623, 2009

      • ruaok
        is your server up all the time?

        • 2009-01-16 01654, 2009

      • ruaok
        I'd like to stick the beeb/cloudspeakers on this and take a closer look.

        • 2009-01-16 01656, 2009

      • luks
        nope, it's my desktop machine

        • 2009-01-16 01621, 2009

      • ruaok
        ah. are there some predictable hours?

        • 2009-01-16 01627, 2009

      • ruaok
        (when it might be up?)

        • 2009-01-16 01645, 2009

      • luks
        always except for nights here

        • 2009-01-16 01608, 2009

      • luks
        it's in my bedroom and it's quite noisy :)

        • 2009-01-16 01613, 2009

      • nikki
        suppose they'll be up at the same sort of times then

        • 2009-01-16 01603, 2009

      • ruaok
        that should work well enough.

        • 2009-01-16 01646, 2009

      • ruaok
        heh. I should tell the soundunwound guys. they'd probably be pleased with this solution

        • 2009-01-16 01600, 2009

      • zeno__ has quit

        • 2009-01-16 01659, 2009

      • ruaok
        ok, I think I'm caught up now.

        • 2009-01-16 01609, 2009

      • ruaok
        I was clearly confused with the ID migration bit.

        • 2009-01-16 01631, 2009

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        • 2009-01-16 01646, 2009

      • ruaok
        and with this system, if all the old ids resolve, migration to the new system should be pretty easy actually.

        • 2009-01-16 01614, 2009

      • ruaok
        luks: so you wanna tackle release groups and tt at the same time?

        • 2009-01-16 01620, 2009

      • luks
        ruaok: I'm still not sure, but after trying to do something on the TT branch, it seemed like a waste of time to work in something we know it's suboptimal and it's going to be replaced soon

        • 2009-01-16 01610, 2009

      • ruaok
        yeah, I can see that.

        • 2009-01-16 01634, 2009

      • ruaok
        I'll ponder it some more.

        • 2009-01-16 01635, 2009

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      • chefkoch_
        chefkoch_ is now known as chefkoch

        • 2009-01-16 01648, 2009

      • yvesr_
        yvesr_ is now known as yvesr

        • 2009-01-16 01653, 2009

      • nikki
        hmm...

        • 2009-01-16 01615, 2009

      • nikki
        if a release doesn't actually have a barcode printed on it anywhere, but I can find one for it, should I enter it or not?

        • 2009-01-16 01643, 2009

      • ruaok
        sumpin is better than nothin

        • 2009-01-16 01658, 2009

      • ruaok
        unless sumpin is a kick in the ass

        • 2009-01-16 01632, 2009

      • nikki
        heh

        • 2009-01-16 01643, 2009

      • Muz
        Or AIDS

        • 2009-01-16 01645, 2009

      • Muz
        Or Faux.

        • 2009-01-16 01606, 2009

      • nikki
        it's just that there's no way I could possibly prove that the barcode is right, because I know the release never had one printed on it

        • 2009-01-16 01622, 2009

      • Muz
        Sure your release isn't missing extra packaging?

        • 2009-01-16 01633, 2009

      • nikki
        yes

        • 2009-01-16 01658, 2009

      • ruaok
        I've seen barcodes applied to cheap ass plastic warp

        • 2009-01-16 01603, 2009

      • ruaok
        wrap. sorry, warp.

        • 2009-01-16 01620, 2009

      • nikki
        it was brand-new and sealed when I got it and all the others I've seen on yahoo auctions are the same

        • 2009-01-16 01650, 2009

      • navap_
        navap_ is now known as navap

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      • chefkoch_
        chefkoch_ is now known as chefkoch

        • 2009-01-16 01638, 2009

      • jason_emmett
        jason_emmett has joined #MusicBrainz

        • 2009-01-16 01640, 2009

      • ruaok waves to jason_emmett as he goes to sleep!

        • 2009-01-16 01644, 2009

      • ruaok has quit

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      • Muz
        He's dreaming of yoooooou

        • 2009-01-16 01627, 2009

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      • chefkoch_
        chefkoch_ is now known as chefkoch

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      • CStan has quit

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      • jason_emmett
        That's a scaring thought!

        • 2009-01-16 01648, 2009

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      • chefkoch_
        chefkoch_ is now known as chefkoch

        • 2009-01-16 01601, 2009

      • FauxFaux is thinking of jason_emmett too.

        • 2009-01-16 01619, 2009

      • Muz
        I'm about to go to the bathroom. I'll think of jason_emmett once I'm there.

        • 2009-01-16 01635, 2009

      • FauxFaux
        Be careful.

        • 2009-01-16 01618, 2009

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        futilius_ is now known as futilius

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      • avis has quit

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      • FauxFaux
        Bah. I was going for a "It's dangerous to go alone" above, but couldn't think of an object. Me, dammit. ME.

        • 2009-01-16 01609, 2009

      • Muz
        snigger at your/you're fail

        • 2009-01-16 01616, 2009

      • CatCat has left the channel

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      • navap
        bar!

        • 2009-01-16 01638, 2009

      • FauxFaux
        Bazil!