"then hand your toboggan to your roadie to take up the hill"
2007-11-06 31038, 2007
drsaunde
hilarious
2007-11-06 31041, 2007
BrianG
hehe
2007-11-06 31021, 2007
brianfreud
ruaok, on the wiki files thing, I don't have anywhere online to store the files, but I'll add a note to the page directing people to the wiki version of the page for the moment.
2007-11-06 31046, 2007
brianfreud
seems to be an issue with any transcluded wiki page which has files linked in through the wiki, rather than the ftp
2007-11-06 31049, 2007
ruaok
I could give you a "users" account, if you want.
2007-11-06 31058, 2007
brianfreud
lol, or I could do that :P
2007-11-06 31011, 2007
ruaok
you decide.
2007-11-06 31014, 2007
clever has left the channel
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brianfreud
sure, that sounds like a cleaner solution than mine :)
2007-11-06 31041, 2007
ruaok
k.
2007-11-06 31046, 2007
ruaok
what login do you want?
2007-11-06 31055, 2007
brianfreud
I guess the same? brianfreud?
2007-11-06 31059, 2007
ruaok
k
2007-11-06 31046, 2007
brianfreud grumbles something about people who like doing things the *easy* way :D
2007-11-06 31001, 2007
brianfreud
lol
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ruaok runs to fetch his car
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brianfreud
cool, I got it to work :)
2007-11-06 31045, 2007
FauxFaux
Woo!
2007-11-06 31049, 2007
BrianG
!asin B000G75AJS
2007-11-06 31050, 2007
YAUB
BrianG: ASIN: B000G75AJS; UPC: 639111103227; Country: U.S. and Canada; Label: Some Records; Year: 2006; Media: Audio CD; Title: Soft Targets; Artists: Earl Greyhound
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VxJasonxV
?
2007-11-06 31032, 2007
drsaunde
yeah i'm here
2007-11-06 31058, 2007
VxJasonxV
Artist Intent :P
2007-11-06 31015, 2007
drsaunde
artist intent may be one over the other (and I have no preference which guy is listed first) but they shouldn't be 2 seperate artists
2007-11-06 31016, 2007
drsaunde
I can open this up to the room here. Artist A and Artist B, listed on one VA comp as A & B, on another B & A ....
2007-11-06 31043, 2007
drsaunde
does anyone agree that there should be 2 artists in the database "A & B" and "B & A"
2007-11-06 31051, 2007
drsaunde
or do people think they should be merged together
2007-11-06 31023, 2007
l8nite
Same two people?
2007-11-06 31031, 2007
drsaunde
yes
2007-11-06 31045, 2007
l8nite
I'd vote for just one artist then
2007-11-06 31005, 2007
VxJasonxV
unfortunately, I'm on the phone, and have a reason.
2007-11-06 31019, 2007
VxJasonxV
you should link them to the notes page, please, and I'll follow up in a minute for WHY it should not be just one artist
You cannot simply say: "VA Comp A lists Artist X & Artist Y. VA Comp B lists Artist Y & Artist X"
2007-11-06 31041, 2007
VxJasonxV
1) Yes, they ARE two VA comps.
2007-11-06 31043, 2007
VxJasonxV
2) They are 2 VA comps (three, actually), that are all for the same exact franchise.
2007-11-06 31046, 2007
VxJasonxV
The soundtracks are VA because multiple handfuls of artists contribute.
2007-11-06 31049, 2007
VxJasonxV
The soundtracks are produced by the same music studio/people that produce the music as it goes into the game(s) themselves.
2007-11-06 31052, 2007
VxJasonxV
Both games, DDR Supernova, and IIDX RED list "Tatsh & NAOKI" for Red Zone, in Game, and on the OSTs
2007-11-06 31055, 2007
VxJasonxV
IIDX DistorteD, for "Deep Roar", both the game and the soundtrack, list "NAOKI & Tatsh"
2007-11-06 31014, 2007
l8nite
hm
2007-11-06 31025, 2007
l8nite
in-game is the same order as on the OST?
2007-11-06 31025, 2007
brianfreud
VxJasonxV: yes, but even the sheer existance of this artist is only a system hack
2007-11-06 31031, 2007
brianfreud
"Artist A" &
2007-11-06 31036, 2007
brianfreud
"Artist B"
2007-11-06 31000, 2007
brianfreud
when we can associate multiple artists to the same release/track, this artist will split anyhow - main reason order doesn't matter.
2007-11-06 31030, 2007
VxJasonxV
l8nite, yes, they are.
2007-11-06 31044, 2007
VxJasonxV
brianfreud, then we'll fix the technical limitation then
2007-11-06 31056, 2007
VxJasonxV
but this data should not be incorrect in the meantime
2007-11-06 31015, 2007
VxJasonxV
you can't expect me to accept invalid data to a technical MBz limitation...
2007-11-06 31026, 2007
VxJasonxV
this is about attribution, not Nbz
2007-11-06 31027, 2007
brianfreud
yes, but that they are now "Artist A & Artist B", or "Artist B & Artist A" simply as a result of that workaround, how can you claim the order has ANY importance?
2007-11-06 31034, 2007
VxJasonxV
MBzz
2007-11-06 31047, 2007
VxJasonxV
because all releases make it this specific
2007-11-06 31057, 2007
l8nite
Isn't it important, brianfreud?
2007-11-06 31008, 2007
l8nite
I mean, even if we associate multiple artists, often there's a primary artist
2007-11-06 31037, 2007
l8nite
To me, if it's listed this way it's because this person contributed more to that individual song (or bribed his co-worker, or whatever)
2007-11-06 31048, 2007
brianfreud
If I have a release "Chris Cornell & Dave Grohl", and another "Dave Grohl & Chris Cornell", you're saying, since we can't just assign both "Dave Grohl" and "Chris Cornell" both, we ought ot have multiple duplicate & artists, just to cover every possible ordering of those artists on different liners?
2007-11-06 31049, 2007
VxJasonxV
These are not some loosely related VA comps. They are ALL in house. With the same people managing all of them.
2007-11-06 31051, 2007
brianfreud
That makes no sense
2007-11-06 31058, 2007
VxJasonxV
also, irc'ing on a treo is dumb. but i have to to maintain a sane conversation... stupid comcast
2007-11-06 31013, 2007
VxJasonxV
also, that last message was delayed from my desktop client :P
2007-11-06 31024, 2007
VxJasonxV
i see some packets managed to sneak through
2007-11-06 31006, 2007
VxJasonxV
the ordering is relevant in this case.
2007-11-06 31015, 2007
VxJasonxV
these are not loose va listings
2007-11-06 31018, 2007
brianfreud
You have an A and a B. We can't, right now, put both A and B separately on the same thing. So we temporarily have a third artist, "A & B". When we can, we will get rid of "A & B" and make it "A" and "B". So whether it is "A & B" or "B & A", either gives the same info. However, the specific order of A and B (and C,D,E,F,G,...) in that has no meaning
2007-11-06 31033, 2007
VxJasonxV
these are intentional attributions made for a series of games
2007-11-06 31053, 2007
brianfreud
yes, that A and B both wrote it/performed it.
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Kerensky97 has left the channel
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brianfreud
and either "A & B" or "B & A" gives the same info
2007-11-06 31035, 2007
brianfreud
but that they list it in one order on one cover, and another order on another cover, doesn't give any justification to our requring one or the other order
2007-11-06 31047, 2007
l8nite
Who gets listed first is kind of a big deal isn't it? I mean, if I were B and I got listed second on a track that I was the primary contributor for, it'd kind of irk me :)
2007-11-06 31003, 2007
l8nite shrugs
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brianfreud
not really... often it's just alphabetical, or how the names will fit on the liner, or what works best with that specific artwork, etc
2007-11-06 31036, 2007
VxJasonxV
I still think it's messed up to change the intent due to a technical limitation
2007-11-06 31044, 2007
brianfreud
there is no intent though
2007-11-06 31047, 2007
brianfreud
that's the point
2007-11-06 31006, 2007
VxJasonxV
you know that... how?
2007-11-06 31007, 2007
l8nite
I think Jason's proved intent, especially if the game credits list it the same way as the release
2007-11-06 31008, 2007
brianfreud
To assume that order matters also assumes that order means one did more than the other
2007-11-06 31019, 2007
VxJasonxV
i do know that there IS intent in this ordering...
2007-11-06 31045, 2007
brianfreud
then "A & B" is not a collaboration
2007-11-06 31051, 2007
brianfreud
it is a specifically named group.
2007-11-06 31004, 2007
VxJasonxV
uhhh
2007-11-06 31016, 2007
brianfreud
collaboration "A & B" is identical to collaboration "B & A".
2007-11-06 31030, 2007
brianfreud
group "A & B" is however NOT identical to group "B & A".
2007-11-06 31037, 2007
VxJasonxV
i really wish i wasn't on this treo right now
2007-11-06 31000, 2007
VxJasonxV
typing is so horrendous and i cant make my point without having another one to defend
2007-11-06 31018, 2007
brianfreud says nothing til VxJasonxV says he's made all his points :)
2007-11-06 31046, 2007
VxJasonxV
to assume order matters is to assume that order means one did more than the other: not necessarily did more, more along the lines of one individuals samples/style. but this order did in fact matter
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VxJasonxV
A & B and B & A are both collabs in this case
2007-11-06 31039, 2007
VxJasonxV
there are always these edge cases
2007-11-06 31051, 2007
VxJasonxV
there was intent here, this is not lazy attribution
2007-11-06 31005, 2007
VxJasonxV
that is my case, artist and label intent, on both the games and the osts
2007-11-06 31020, 2007
VxJasonxV
none of this attribution has ever been mixed up, either
2007-11-06 31032, 2007
VxJasonxV
you're free to respond.
2007-11-06 31047, 2007
VxJasonxV
(none has been mixed up in official releases, that is)
2007-11-06 31048, 2007
brianfreud
ok. I take your point, but it seems you're ignoring one basic here
2007-11-06 31023, 2007
brianfreud
If "A & B" is an & collaboratioin artist, then when we can multiple-attribute works, "A & B" will devolve to "A" and "B"
2007-11-06 31044, 2007
brianfreud
If "A & B" is not a collaboration artist, it can only be a group.
2007-11-06 31012, 2007
VxJasonxV
a & b is a collab, as is b & a...
2007-11-06 31018, 2007
VxJasonxV
it is not black or white
2007-11-06 31028, 2007
brianfreud
If it is not a group, and therefore is a collab artist, then MB afaik makes no such distinction as you are drawing - there's simply no support for that type of situation
2007-11-06 31046, 2007
VxJasonxV
there dstinction in intent...
2007-11-06 31053, 2007
VxJasonxV
wow, that got chopped up
2007-11-06 31009, 2007
brianfreud
ok, so if a&B is a collab, and b&a is a collab, and both will ultimately devolve to a and b... what's the point of keeping them separate until then?
2007-11-06 31010, 2007
VxJasonxV
there is* distinction* in this case, due to intent
2007-11-06 31038, 2007
l8nite
I'm leaning towards brian's argument, but I kind of wish the "devolving" could still retain order
2007-11-06 31042, 2007
VxJasonxV
because if you force it to a & b now, then the recorded data IS WRONG now
2007-11-06 31055, 2007
brianfreud
only if you interpret it as order mattering
2007-11-06 31000, 2007
VxJasonxV
i would rather hack it into being correct NOW and not later
2007-11-06 31008, 2007
VxJasonxV
and order does matter *in this case*
2007-11-06 31014, 2007
brianfreud
if you interpret it as "it would be a and b if we could do a and b", then your point is lost, I think
