warp: I've thought about that too, but it doesn't seem to pose a huge problem, at least not much more than the natural melody of english limits english lyrics. even when singing the tones don't get completely mangeled and it's possible to understand
foolip: no, I mean if it states "sung together with" it's pretty much safe to use 'performed vocal'. If it only states 'featuring' but you know he only did the vocals imho you shouldn't use 'performed vocal'
2007-07-05 18638, 2007
foolip
which language list is that?
2007-07-05 18650, 2007
foolip
Prodoc: yep, certainly
2007-07-05 18605, 2007
warp
Prodoc: why not?
2007-07-05 18619, 2007
catgroove
foolip: a languagfe list of editrs
2007-07-05 18621, 2007
foolip
I've only added these relationships for songs I've actually listened to, so far
2007-07-05 18624, 2007
catgroove
im in the 'norwegian' section
2007-07-05 18628, 2007
catgroove
you ucnaaddyoursefl manually
2007-07-05 18633, 2007
foolip
ah, I though it was a mailing list
2007-07-05 18636, 2007
foolip
very well, will add
2007-07-05 18638, 2007
catgroove
no no :)
2007-07-05 18640, 2007
catgroove
yay!
2007-07-05 18654, 2007
catgroove
and also with tonal lnaguages you can make puns
2007-07-05 18600, 2007
catgroove
norwegian is also a tonal language
2007-07-05 18605, 2007
catgroove
not as much as chinese.. but astill
2007-07-05 18611, 2007
foolip
yeah, the word puns are pretty horrible here, hehe
2007-07-05 18617, 2007
foolip
(I'm in beijing btw)
2007-07-05 18618, 2007
Prodoc
warp: because it's ambiguous. You would require additional proof for it to be valid
2007-07-05 18633, 2007
catgroove
åpen bar -> åpenbar
2007-07-05 18641, 2007
catgroove
open bar and.. well revelation
2007-07-05 18607, 2007
foolip
yeah, don't split the words in swedish/danish/norwegian
2007-07-05 18609, 2007
warp
Prodoc: ambiguous?
2007-07-05 18633, 2007
Prodoc
'open to different interpretations'
2007-07-05 18637, 2007
catgroove
split the words?
2007-07-05 18653, 2007
foolip
there was a kind of civil movement against "separating the words" in sweden a while ago
2007-07-05 18654, 2007
warp
Prodoc: yes, you would need knowledge of the artists involved, certainly. but if you have that knowledge, and can possibly back it up, why not add the more detailed AR ?
2007-07-05 18602, 2007
catgroove
lol never heard of it
2007-07-05 18607, 2007
catgroove
hmm
2007-07-05 18615, 2007
foolip
catgroove: writing åpenbar as "åpen bar" is what I mean
2007-07-05 18619, 2007
catgroove
like.. ifits one word its different than if its two
2007-07-05 18630, 2007
catgroove
no because åpenbaar is revelation
2007-07-05 18633, 2007
Prodoc
like I said, with additional proof it would be ok
2007-07-05 18635, 2007
foolip
yeah, it doesn't mean the same, and it doesn't same the same
2007-07-05 18636, 2007
catgroove
but åpen bar is open bar
2007-07-05 18612, 2007
Prodoc
but just 'knowing' by listening isn't sufficient imo. What if he provided a minor sample as well?
2007-07-05 18616, 2007
catgroove tries to think of an example that is good
2007-07-05 18640, 2007
catgroove
!
2007-07-05 18655, 2007
catgroove
grøntf\or vs grønt fór
2007-07-05 18658, 2007
catgroove
eh
2007-07-05 18600, 2007
catgroove
never mind
2007-07-05 18603, 2007
catgroove
can't type today
2007-07-05 18657, 2007
klokie joined the channel
2007-07-05 18642, 2007
klokie
hello all
2007-07-05 18638, 2007
foolip
I'm amazed by the "Is This Bad Terminology?" discussion in ModeratorLanguage
2007-07-05 18644, 2007
foolip
hello klokie
2007-07-05 18603, 2007
klokie
hi, please forgive me if I missed this point in the FAQ, but I am really puzzled as to why the MB initiative switched from RDF/XML to just XML?
2007-07-05 18628, 2007
catgroove
yea I know foolip
2007-07-05 18629, 2007
catgroove
wtf
2007-07-05 18640, 2007
klokie
it just seems to me like a step backwards - that it would be better to work toward integrating the amazing resource that is the MB db with other RDFS data sources cropping up almost daily
2007-07-05 18646, 2007
klokie
my $.02
2007-07-05 18655, 2007
catgroove
hmm
2007-07-05 18600, 2007
catgroove
ruaok? a Q for you?
2007-07-05 18627, 2007
MrQwerty joined the channel
2007-07-05 18655, 2007
Prodoc
klokie: I'm trying to locate the statement as to why MB stopt using RDF but I can't find it as fast as I would like to. It basically came down to RDF is not being used and it was too much effort to continue using it
2007-07-05 18615, 2007
klokie
oy :/
2007-07-05 18622, 2007
klokie
thanks for your reply
2007-07-05 18629, 2007
warp just really see much benefit in rdf
2007-07-05 18645, 2007
klokie
but I think things have changed quite a lot in the last 3 years WRT RDF
2007-07-05 18653, 2007
warp
that's just another flavour of xml
2007-07-05 18641, 2007
acid2
Any pythoners here?
2007-07-05 18652, 2007
acid2
#python is so stupid debate about electricity and saving our planet
2007-07-05 18655, 2007
acid2
is some*
2007-07-05 18603, 2007
klokie
it is a flavor of XML, but one with a clear, extensible vocabulary when applied to MB, which would allow use of MB data in other contexts
2007-07-05 18658, 2007
FauxFaux inserts a lead-in question into acid2's left ear.
2007-07-05 18604, 2007
warp
the current xml can't be used in other contexts? :)
2007-07-05 18609, 2007
acid2
lol, sorry faux
2007-07-05 18621, 2007
acid2
I just don't wanna go asking widely off topic questions needlessy
2007-07-05 18623, 2007
warp
acid2: i do bits of python, but i'm very new at it.
2007-07-05 18636, 2007
acid2
I'm having a bit of trouble with pickling... I pickle an object from one script, and wish to use the result in another module. When I dump the object, the pickled file starts with "(i__main__HeadlessDisplayer", but when I try to import the class in my consuming module, it appears as "(idTorrent.torrents.views HeadlessDisplayer"
2007-07-05 18642, 2007
acid2
That's the question
2007-07-05 18650, 2007
FauxFaux off-topics acid2 off the map.
2007-07-05 18654, 2007
acid2
lol
2007-07-05 18605, 2007
klokie
of course it can :) but it seems to require more effort on the part of all other groups in order to align the namespaces, object hierarchies, etc. in order to get them to coexist
2007-07-05 18609, 2007
acid2 didn't know off-topic was a verb
2007-07-05 18613, 2007
warp has no idea what pickling is :(
2007-07-05 18614, 2007
Prodoc
klokie: I tried giving rdf a go a while back. At it's current state it's a lot of trouble without much to gain imho
2007-07-05 18639, 2007
klokie
ok
2007-07-05 18642, 2007
klokie
cheers
2007-07-05 18609, 2007
Prodoc
of course, you could always create an XSL file to convert the XML output to RDF/XML ;-)
2007-07-05 18627, 2007
klokie
yep, working on that :]
2007-07-05 18632, 2007
Prodoc
hehe
2007-07-05 18602, 2007
FauxFaux
I can tell you now that that's going to be slower than doing it by hand. :P
2007-07-05 18622, 2007
Prodoc
if you manage to create a proper format, it might not be too much trouble to let MB serve two format but don't push your luck ;-)
2007-07-05 18651, 2007
Prodoc
would you care to explain why you want it in RDF besides just for the sake of it being in RDF? how do you plan on using it in a better way than just XML? (trying hard not to sound too negative about RDF and discouraging you)
2007-07-05 18637, 2007
MrQwerty` has quit
2007-07-05 18608, 2007
catgroove is wastly amused by the "NO LOL" topic in #python
2007-07-05 18637, 2007
catgroove also wanted to shout "LOL" at the top of his lungsh
2007-07-05 18602, 2007
catgroove
catgroove is now known as LOLgroove
2007-07-05 18609, 2007
LOLgroove
HUHUHUHUHUHUHLOLHUHUHUH
2007-07-05 18625, 2007
LOLgroove
AH
2007-07-05 18629, 2007
LOLgroove
LOLgroove is now known as catgroove
2007-07-05 18609, 2007
klokie
well here's one example: make a query to show me all artists who released recordings in the 1970s
2007-07-05 18622, 2007
Prodoc
and this can't be done in the pure XML format?
2007-07-05 18613, 2007
klokie
right now, I would have to 1) use MB's server @ 1 query per second or set up a mirror, make a query to the MB-specific free text search engine (Lucene?) that is not completely up to date, and that returns a result set in XML, which I would then need to transform (via XSL?) into a displayable format
2007-07-05 18622, 2007
klokie
or maybe I am missing something
2007-07-05 18635, 2007
FauxFaux
Just use the database, easy SQL query.
2007-07-05 18642, 2007
FauxFaux
*Just mirror the database
2007-07-05 18644, 2007
klokie
ok
2007-07-05 18615, 2007
Prodoc
you would have to do the same for RDF
2007-07-05 18646, 2007
klokie
well I could just set up a SPARQL query against the RDF datastore, and I have my results
2007-07-05 18626, 2007
FauxFaux
I have no idea how rdf works, but wouldn't that involve downloiading the whole rdf dump (or diffs thereof) frequently?
2007-07-05 18628, 2007
foolip
if a record label has two bands record the same song but in different languages, would the last one released count as a cover of the first one?
2007-07-05 18624, 2007
klokie
right, the database would need to update via diffs periodically, as is the case currently
2007-07-05 18659, 2007
Prodoc
the way I look at it is it's a limitation of the search functionality of MB, it wouldn't matter if you get your results in XML or RDF
2007-07-05 18625, 2007
klokie
I agree
2007-07-05 18635, 2007
FauxFaux
Yeah, my problem is understanding why you want the data in a format that's not sql, assuming you can't get /just results/ from the mb server.
2007-07-05 18633, 2007
Prodoc
the idea behind RDF, and Dublin Core for that matter, is interesting. The only problem, the reason why I lost interest in it a while ago, is that it doesn't work. Like with Dublin Core you'll run into limitations really fast. As a result you'll start defining all your own things again
2007-07-05 18650, 2007
Prodoc
(tags, attributes, etc)
2007-07-05 18650, 2007
klokie
data in rdf is self-describing, which is something that sql can only do on a human level and XML can sometimes do but only on a project-by-project basis
2007-07-05 18611, 2007
FauxFaux
Self-describing is a joke, get over it. :P
2007-07-05 18620, 2007
klokie
ok
2007-07-05 18629, 2007
Prodoc
indeed it's self-describing but it misses it's point if you have to add your own stuff again
2007-07-05 18632, 2007
FauxFaux
</biased after having to use SOAP>
2007-07-05 18637, 2007
foolip
what exactly defines "cover" and "earlier version"?
2007-07-05 18647, 2007
klokie
SOAP is different story, really - it's no longer Simple is it?
2007-07-05 18659, 2007
klokie
anyway thanks a lot for your responses
2007-07-05 18600, 2007
foolip
would I be stupid to add a "earlier version" relationship between two different artists?
2007-07-05 18625, 2007
klokie
i'm not sure i follow
2007-07-05 18640, 2007
catgruff joined the channel
2007-07-05 18633, 2007
Prodoc
foolip: 'earlier version' is e.g. an extended version or a demo version of the track by the same artist
2007-07-05 18620, 2007
catgruff
yarg thunderstorms
2007-07-05 18624, 2007
foolip
the reason I'm hesitating is because the same song writer rewrote the song in another language and gave it to another band, not exactly what I think of as a "cover"
2007-07-05 18628, 2007
catgruff
momvisit
2007-07-05 18640, 2007
foolip
but perhaps cover is close enough...
2007-07-05 18641, 2007
catgruff is now known as awaycat
2007-07-05 18624, 2007
Prodoc
that's a bit of a borderline case. I think cover would indeed be more suitable
2007-07-05 18654, 2007
foolip
very well, cover it is
2007-07-05 18655, 2007
Prodoc
though you might want to add that as an edit note in case others think different about it
2007-07-05 18653, 2007
foolip
yep, will do
2007-07-05 18611, 2007
foolip
what can be done when there are several releases of both the original song and the cover version? if relationships between all version are to be created that would be N*M relationships, which seems overkill
2007-07-05 18627, 2007
foolip
but since there is no concept of "song" in musicbrainz, what can be done?
2007-07-05 18608, 2007
Jormangeud joined the channel
2007-07-05 18626, 2007
Prodoc
the general consensus on that matter is to use only the earliest releases until we have a way to overcome the problem
2007-07-05 18600, 2007
foolip
sounds good, and happens to be what I've been doing
2007-07-05 18644, 2007
foolip
on a separate note, is there any relationship like "parodies", "references" or similar?
2007-07-05 18600, 2007
foolip
something which isn't a cover, but maybe borrows parts of the lyrics
2007-07-05 18613, 2007
warp
not currently afaik. there is _some_ discussion on the .. earliest release of .. AR wiki page.
