Freso: well... theres are just the deals we know about.. </paranoid>
2007-05-18 13809, 2007
warp
;)
2007-05-18 13850, 2007
Freso
warp: Well, I must say that I'm fairly confident that the deals Google has about are justifiable.
2007-05-18 13829, 2007
warp
the one i linked here isn't justifiable IMO.
2007-05-18 13841, 2007
ruaok
damn. I hate processes the run for 7 hours and THEN fail. :-(
2007-05-18 13800, 2007
warp
"One email request is all that google needs to turn over IP of anybody running hate group against India or eminent personalities of the country."
2007-05-18 13824, 2007
Freso
warp: Where is that?
2007-05-18 13825, 2007
warp
eep, just closed the tab. one of the links about the google + mumbai police deal.
2007-05-18 13828, 2007
rjmunro has quit
2007-05-18 13828, 2007
warp
ofcourse they probably are forced by law to supply the IP address of certain people in many other countries too, doesn't mean they should make it _that_ easy for a random police official to get that information :)
2007-05-18 13839, 2007
cooperaa_away joined the channel
2007-05-18 13845, 2007
cooperaa_away
BrianFreud: you there?
2007-05-18 13846, 2007
Freso
warp: True. But then again, I'm not too scared. I'm pretty confident that Google won't let them have all the information on anything just by an e-mail. I'd think they'd at least give the content in question a look over first.
2007-05-18 13853, 2007
BrianFreud
yes
2007-05-18 13801, 2007
BrianFreud
cooperaa_away: what's up?
2007-05-18 13822, 2007
cooperaa_away
uh I just wanted to leave you a comment and I suppose I could have on the edit
Freso: you _think_ :) i'm not as trusting. i do think in general google isn't evil, but it doesn't hurt to keep an eye on this :)
2007-05-18 13852, 2007
warp
s/this/things/
2007-05-18 13819, 2007
cooperaa_away
I think in this case proof isn't necessary (it'd be nice) but the user has attached a disc id, used proper capitalization (wow!), and has entered the catalog number
2007-05-18 13829, 2007
cooperaa_away
(sorry, I can't send PMs because my nick isn't reg'd)
2007-05-18 13833, 2007
BrianFreud
no prob
2007-05-18 13855, 2007
BrianFreud
Oh, I agree - but do you know how many with that detail of info that I found typos in just this morning?
2007-05-18 13859, 2007
cooperaa_away
that's why I went straight to a yes edit
2007-05-18 13805, 2007
BrianFreud
never hurts to have a second set of eyes on a tracklist :)
2007-05-18 13829, 2007
cooperaa_away
:) fair enough, and we each have our own perception of what is enough proof :)
2007-05-18 13846, 2007
BrianFreud
oh, I'll not vote no for no proof - just not yes without it :)
warp: Agreed. But I'm generally more gullible. :p Also, while I greatly distrust entities which have a history of bad behaviour (Microsoft, the Danish government, etc.), I do tend to reward trust to those who (appear to) behave nice.
2007-05-18 13807, 2007
BrianFreud
ugh... another of the damn "japanese but English" releases
2007-05-18 13822, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: ooh! link!
2007-05-18 13835, 2007
BrianFreud
cooperaa_away: I agree with your point, but just got done with 5 or so similar arguments about it
2007-05-18 13842, 2007
BrianFreud
warp: the one cooperaa_away just linked to
2007-05-18 13858, 2007
cooperaa_away
like how we change "A Tout Le Monde" on all Megadeth albums to "A tout le monde"
2007-05-18 13859, 2007
MBChatLogger
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'The Danish goverment, you mean'
2007-05-18 13859, 2007
Freso
*government
2007-05-18 13842, 2007
BrianFreud
cooperaa_away: I agree. Like I said on the mailing list, if they really want us to ignore all rules of English, just because it's a japanese release, then RFP a "English:Japanese Rules" Language option
2007-05-18 13848, 2007
warp
kerensky made an excellent post about the japanese stuff on the mailling list, .. i need to find some way to put that to use.
2007-05-18 13811, 2007
cooperaa_away
I read the japanese exception wiki page
2007-05-18 13829, 2007
BrianFreud
It's not like I can use a similar argument for English caps for a French titled track on an English release - I still have to follow French rules for caps on that track
2007-05-18 13834, 2007
cooperaa_away
which says that in some cases CAPS LOCK is used consistently
2007-05-18 13816, 2007
cooperaa_away
perhaps I just don't get it because all releases I have with titles printed in CAPS on the back are just automatically assumed to just be for "style" and have no bearing on the title of the song
2007-05-18 13821, 2007
BrianFreud
exactly
2007-05-18 13825, 2007
cooperaa_away throws spaghetti in the microwave
2007-05-18 13838, 2007
cooperaa_away
*er, rather gently places it so as to not spill
2007-05-18 13838, 2007
BrianFreud
at the barest minimum they ought to leave a "Japanese release rules" note in the add
2007-05-18 13839, 2007
warp
cooperaa_away: that page is misleading IMO
2007-05-18 13843, 2007
BrianFreud
I don't know how anyone else does it, but I have a saved link on my wiki for "new english releases I've not yet voted on". If I see a release that claims to be English, especially if it has an artist whose name is also in Latin script (not unicode), then I assume it's English. If they want to argue with that, fine - but why does this one class get to get away with it? We don't do it for any other language
2007-05-18 13848, 2007
BrianFreud
It's like having a generalized ArtistIntent rule that anyone can claim anytime, for not one artist, but an entire country
2007-05-18 13815, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: well yes, that's what you get with different cultures and such :)
2007-05-18 13845, 2007
BrianFreud
And if they want that, then ok. But RFP a new language setting - don't force English users to ignore the rules of the English language setting
2007-05-18 13817, 2007
BrianFreud
and definitely don't get rude or indignant when those same users DO try to enforce the rules of the English setting :P
2007-05-18 13819, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: for this particular release, it is set to kanji/kana isn't it?
2007-05-18 13855, 2007
cooperaa_away
warp: yes, but that's sketchy in itself since all but one track title is english
2007-05-18 13814, 2007
BrianFreud
It is now - but I can go and pull 20 such examples that are set to Latin/English, and all added in the alst 3 days
2007-05-18 13818, 2007
cooperaa_away
and the cover is completely english
2007-05-18 13830, 2007
warp
cooperaa_away: yes, that's enough for me. I expect 'latin' to only contain latin.
2007-05-18 13843, 2007
cooperaa_away
Beat FM, Musicrusaders, Masked Superstar DJ version, Stereo, "On Air"
2007-05-18 13850, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: please do :)
2007-05-18 13851, 2007
BrianFreud
SEGA
2007-05-18 13838, 2007
BrianFreud
As I say, if they want it this way, set it to something non-English (as this one is), and ignore the fact its not really in Japanese script
2007-05-18 13839, 2007
cooperaa_away
SEEEEEEGAAAAAAAA
2007-05-18 13856, 2007
BrianFreud
Thought I wonder if that would break some taggers
2007-05-18 13832, 2007
BrianFreud
Japanese/Latin would seem more appropriate for this release than Japanese/Kanji & Kana
I just got in a huge argument with Sturla last week over another set
2007-05-18 13836, 2007
BrianFreud
The discs even had US release events - but he claimed ArtistIntent and used English/Latin
2007-05-18 13841, 2007
cooperaa_away
there's got to be a peaceful way to resolve this :)
2007-05-18 13807, 2007
BrianFreud
I'd suggested new language "English; Japanese Ruleset" on the mailinglist
2007-05-18 13812, 2007
BrianFreud
didn't seem to go anywhere
2007-05-18 13828, 2007
cooperaa_away can't wait to play guitar hero tonight!
2007-05-18 13802, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: i'm planning to automatically prefer latin releases over kanji/kana releases in my tagger,.. for vfat and other nasty file systems.
2007-05-18 13835, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: i don't know if that is the intended purpose of those character set settings, but i would prefer latin to ALWAYS be just latin.
2007-05-18 13825, 2007
BrianFreud
well, that one release shows how that's not the best rule...
2007-05-18 13836, 2007
BrianFreud
It's breaking the 50:50 rule, for one
2007-05-18 13811, 2007
warp
hm, there is a 50:50 rule? :)
2007-05-18 13814, 2007
BrianFreud
If I tried that for a release with 9 tracks in English and 1 in Russian, and tried setting it to cyrillic, do you think my edit would pass?
2007-05-18 13827, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: i would vote yes.
2007-05-18 13845, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: i don't have _all_ the mb style guidelines in my head.
2007-05-18 13846, 2007
warp
:)
2007-05-18 13848, 2007
BrianFreud
lol
2007-05-18 13853, 2007
BrianFreud
but then, what about the reverse?
2007-05-18 13801, 2007
BrianFreud
9 tracks in Russian, one in English, set to Latin?
2007-05-18 13822, 2007
cooperaa_away
hmm, good argument
2007-05-18 13851, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: well, for kanji/kana, it is normal for latin characters to also appear. so that's easy for japanese. :)
2007-05-18 13855, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: anything which contains non-latin characters should go to whichever non-latin character set is used most, but that's my opinion, from the POV of someone using that data in a tagger :).
2007-05-18 13813, 2007
BrianFreud
but you somewhat prove my point there - you didn't comment about this concept when applied outside of Kanji & Kana. So if it's unique to Japanese/Kanji & Kana, then let's stop forcing English speakers to ignore the rules, let's create a specific "English for Kanji & Kana" option.
2007-05-18 13808, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: hm, i think i missed something in that line of thought.
2007-05-18 13845, 2007
BrianFreud
if it is normal for latin chars to appear in Japanese, then either a Japanese-rules release that is entirely (or even partially) using English, or at least Latin characters, ought to either be set to "Japanese" or more appropriately, "English for Kanji & Kana".
2007-05-18 13855, 2007
BrianFreud
If they choose to set it to English, then they ought to be following the rules for English. AND when English speakers go to correct it to English rules, because it is set to English, there ought to not be some generic ArtistIntentForJapaneseOnly rule that can be used at will.
2007-05-18 13814, 2007
BrianFreud
If I tried that with dmppanda, for example, and claimed that english rules ought to be used for a release all in French by an English speaker, he'd laugh in my face. So why is it different when a Japanese artist does it?
2007-05-18 13809, 2007
warp
gah, too many windows.
2007-05-18 13811, 2007
warp reads.
2007-05-18 13828, 2007
cooperaa_away
Please let me know if you guys come to any conclusion
2007-05-18 13830, 2007
cooperaa_away
I have to pack :P
2007-05-18 13838, 2007
cooperaa_away
heading home for the long weekend
2007-05-18 13850, 2007
ojnkpjg
brianfreud, releases from japan in english get a waiver for unknown reasons
2007-05-18 13857, 2007
ojnkpjg
i've never understood this either
2007-05-18 13800, 2007
BrianFreud
cooperaa_away: under the current rules, I'd say you have to revert. At least they didn't set that one to English.
2007-05-18 13816, 2007
BrianFreud
ojnkpjg: yeah - that's the waiver I'm arguing out to be revoked :P
2007-05-18 13822, 2007
cooperaa_away
okay well I'll revert for now
2007-05-18 13832, 2007
ojnkpjg
some peopel get very angry when you change things to comply with guidelines for english
2007-05-18 13837, 2007
ojnkpjg
and assert artist intent
2007-05-18 13840, 2007
BrianFreud
yes
2007-05-18 13841, 2007
ojnkpjg
which doesn't fly anywhere else :/
2007-05-18 13859, 2007
ojnkpjg
i don't get it, but i don't care enough to fight about it, either
2007-05-18 13807, 2007
BrianFreud
but us English speakers tend to be rather annoyed when non-English speakers set something to English, then tell us to ignore when they break all the rules of English
2007-05-18 13819, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: if a release is set to english, it's just english... this whole japanese stuff shouldn't apply at all.
2007-05-18 13835, 2007
BrianFreud
gets rather annoying when you read through new add release edits with no notes, fix them, then have someone bitch and moan about Japanese ArtistIntent
2007-05-18 13816, 2007
ojnkpjg
tell me about it :)
2007-05-18 13827, 2007
warp
BrianFreud: if it is set to japanese with latin, it's probably a transliteration, and there are probably rules for transliterating japanese into english,.. which i don't really care about. but the tracks being transliterated certainly isn't artistintent, so that doesn't apply.
2007-05-18 13839, 2007
Freso
AFAIK, you don't transliterate one language into another - you transliterate a script into another (e.g., kanji to latin).
