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2007-06-29 18033, 2007
0:27 AM
hawke
anybody have any suggestions for how to handle cc-licensed music which is no longer available for download?
2007-06-29 18010, 2007
0:28 AM
dholmes
What do you mean by "handle"?
2007-06-29 18045, 2007
0:28 AM
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2007-06-29 18057, 2007
0:28 AM
ruaok
yllona: on the dev questions.
2007-06-29 18014, 2007
0:29 AM
ruaok
the "preferred" way of indoctrinating mb_server devs is this:
2007-06-29 18041, 2007
0:29 AM
ruaok
1. Have everyone download the latest VMWare Player image of mb_server. Free. Runs windows & Linux, Mac Soon
2007-06-29 18002, 2007
0:30 AM
ruaok
2. Play in this sandbox on your own machine
2007-06-29 18011, 2007
0:30 AM
hawke
dholmes: well, the "add cc license" requires a URL
2007-06-29 18027, 2007
0:30 AM
ruaok
3. Create a patch, send to patches@ or use subversion.
2007-06-29 18053, 2007
0:30 AM
dholmes
Hm. No idea then.
2007-06-29 18004, 2007
0:33 AM
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0:33 AM
hawke
It's also kind of weird that only cc licensing is relatable, but (say) public domain is not
2007-06-29 18008, 2007
0:34 AM
hawke
oh wait
2007-06-29 18009, 2007
0:34 AM
hawke
n/m
2007-06-29 18022, 2007
0:34 AM
hawke
why the heck is "public domain" under a CC license type?
2007-06-29 18051, 2007
0:49 AM
ruaok
4. At some point the devs decide what goes into the next release and they aggregate the various patches/subversion branches and merge it into a release
2007-06-29 18015, 2007
0:50 AM
ruaok
5. the release can then be tested at
test.musicbrainz.org -- that is the official test box for new releases.
2007-06-29 18042, 2007
0:50 AM
ruaok
BUt the idea of multiple instances on one box is too much of a pain in the ass.
2007-06-29 18058, 2007
0:50 AM
ruaok
virtualization fixes this problem.
2007-06-29 18014, 2007
0:51 AM
ruaok
just run the player and there is your setup.
2007-06-29 18019, 2007
0:51 AM
ruaok likes it
2007-06-29 18031, 2007
0:51 AM
ruaok
I hope someone is going to read the backscroll. :)
2007-06-29 18005, 2007
0:52 AM
ruaok
hawke: ping me next time with that question and I'll explain.
2007-06-29 18040, 2007
0:52 AM
hawke
ruaok: "next time"?
2007-06-29 18044, 2007
0:52 AM
yllona
ruaok: it would be good, if on my next trip to SLO (coming soon -- i promise) you could walk me thru a build & config
2007-06-29 18012, 2007
0:53 AM
dholmes
ruaok: Where can one get this VMWare image?
2007-06-29 18057, 2007
0:55 AM
yllona suggests that ruaok quaff residual beer from the weekend :P
2007-06-29 18039, 2007
0:56 AM
ruaok returns for a sec.
2007-06-29 18050, 2007
0:56 AM
ruaok
hawke: next time I appear. :)
2007-06-29 18056, 2007
0:56 AM
hawke
oh, OK
2007-06-29 18001, 2007
0:57 AM
ruaok
yllona: be glad to.
2007-06-29 18017, 2007
0:57 AM
yllona
coolness.. laterz folks
2007-06-29 18039, 2007
0:57 AM
hawke
ruaok: which question, the one about why CC license requires a URL, or why public domain is under add CC license?
2007-06-29 18041, 2007
0:57 AM
hawke
or both?
2007-06-29 18051, 2007
0:57 AM
ruaok
2007-06-29 18004, 2007
0:58 AM
ruaok
the latter.
2007-06-29 18008, 2007
0:58 AM
hawke
k
2007-06-29 18021, 2007
0:58 AM
ruaok
PD is listed under a license because of an artifact of US copyright laws.
2007-06-29 18054, 2007
0:58 AM
ruaok
currently when you scribble a few "things" on a napkin, its by default copyrighted to you.
2007-06-29 18014, 2007
0:59 AM
ruaok
there is no "official way" to disclaim a copyright in the US.
2007-06-29 18030, 2007
0:59 AM
ruaok
there are conventions, but none that have ever been legally recognized.
2007-06-29 18003, 2007
1:00 AM
ruaok
the CC is making the release of content into the public domain a very explicit act.
2007-06-29 18015, 2007
1:00 AM
ruaok
because of the current difficulty in doing so.
2007-06-29 18022, 2007
1:00 AM
ruaok
IHTMS
2007-06-29 18001, 2007
1:01 AM
hawke
I can understand it being under license, but not CC
2007-06-29 18051, 2007
1:02 AM
hawke
hmm...IHTMS = "I hear the mermaids singing"?
2007-06-29 18002, 2007
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1:50 AM
BrianFreud
Jugdish: Around?
2007-06-29 18032, 2007
1:50 AM
Jugdish
yep
2007-06-29 18023, 2007
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2:02 AM
BrianG
i hope thats my sushi
2007-06-29 18004, 2007
2:05 AM
BrianG
i have to make soup
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2:58 AM
phrontist
this is crazy
2007-06-29 18025, 2007
2:58 AM
phrontist
I've got my own MB server (well, dataset... working on replication)
2007-06-29 18033, 2007
2:58 AM
phrontist
I'm just looking at random artist names
2007-06-29 18049, 2007
2:58 AM
phrontist
I thought I knew something about music before working with MB
2007-06-29 18003, 2007
2:59 AM
phrontist
which is kind of liking knowing something about books before visiting the library of congress
2007-06-29 18007, 2007
2:59 AM
phrontist
*like
2007-06-29 18031, 2007
2:59 AM
cooperaa
:)
2007-06-29 18055, 2007
3:02 AM
phrontist
242 bands with "tones" in their namre
2007-06-29 18058, 2007
3:02 AM
phrontist
*name
2007-06-29 18018, 2007
3:03 AM
phrontist
18000 in the form of "The..."
2007-06-29 18041, 2007
3:05 AM
phrontist
118 "Boyz"
2007-06-29 18006, 2007
3:06 AM
cooperaa
ew
2007-06-29 18038, 2007
3:08 AM
BrianFreud
lol
2007-06-29 18021, 2007
3:12 AM
phrontist
so how do we decide whether a group is "The Foo's" or simply "Foo's"?
2007-06-29 18029, 2007
3:13 AM
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3:14 AM
phrontist
2007-06-29 18055, 2007
3:14 AM
dholmes
Yeah
2007-06-29 18058, 2007
3:14 AM
cooperaa
do some research :)
2007-06-29 18018, 2007
3:15 AM
cooperaa
check their album covers, website, etc
2007-06-29 18022, 2007
3:15 AM
cooperaa
what they refer to themselves as
2007-06-29 18028, 2007
3:15 AM
dholmes
Did MB ever decide what do do about artists like that link?
2007-06-29 18042, 2007
3:15 AM
phrontist
I think they should be split
2007-06-29 18012, 2007
3:17 AM
phrontist
I mean... use artist relations
2007-06-29 18020, 2007
3:17 AM
phrontist
what role did each artist play on each track?
2007-06-29 18026, 2007
3:17 AM
phrontist
the album should be a VA
2007-06-29 18052, 2007
3:17 AM
dholmes
The album is a VA
2007-06-29 18004, 2007
3:18 AM
dholmes
If you look at the album itself it's even worse; a ton of different combinations
2007-06-29 18023, 2007
3:18 AM
dholmes
But sometimes there isn't an easy way to pick a single artist as the "main" artist
2007-06-29 18033, 2007
3:20 AM
phrontist
well, I think eventually the notion of a "main" artist is being done away with
2007-06-29 18040, 2007
3:20 AM
phrontist
all artists will be related to a track
2007-06-29 18042, 2007
3:20 AM
cooperaa
this is true
2007-06-29 18046, 2007
3:20 AM
cooperaa
I'd rather have them all in one artist name than have "Various Artists" as the track artist
2007-06-29 18007, 2007
3:21 AM
phrontist
yeah, it's sort of hacky as it is now, but I'm sure it made sense at the time
2007-06-29 18016, 2007
3:21 AM
phrontist
MB is lightyears ahead of the rest in this regard
2007-06-29 18019, 2007
3:21 AM
dholmes
That's certainly better than the current situation in this case, but for normal cases, there still has to be some artist to go into the "Artist" tag
2007-06-29 18026, 2007
3:21 AM
dholmes
I don't see any way out of that
2007-06-29 18030, 2007
3:21 AM
phrontist
dholmes: why?
2007-06-29 18036, 2007
3:21 AM
phrontist
just have relations between artist and track?
2007-06-29 18044, 2007
3:21 AM
phrontist
one relation for one artist
2007-06-29 18058, 2007
3:21 AM
phrontist
bow before the mighty relational calculus! :-)
2007-06-29 18019, 2007
3:22 AM
dholmes
I use MB so my collection is usable in iTunes and WMP. iTunes would be pretty useless without something meaningful in the "Artist" tag
2007-06-29 18043, 2007
3:22 AM
dholmes
"Multiple Artists" might suffice in crazy cases like that, but all the same
2007-06-29 18052, 2007
3:22 AM
phrontist
well, tagging is just one case
2007-06-29 18057, 2007
3:22 AM
phrontist
MB seeks to be more general
2007-06-29 18059, 2007
3:22 AM
BrianFreud
NGS will be allowing multiple artists, so all these & ones are going away
2007-06-29 18009, 2007
3:23 AM
dholmes
Perhaps, but it's probably the one the vast majority care about
2007-06-29 18013, 2007
3:23 AM
dholmes
BrianFreud: oh, excellent
2007-06-29 18014, 2007
3:23 AM
cooperaa
but technically they are the artists its credited to... (I assume)
2007-06-29 18016, 2007
3:23 AM
dholmes
That's what I was wondering
2007-06-29 18028, 2007
3:23 AM
BrianFreud
!quote 13
2007-06-29 18028, 2007
3:23 AM
YAUB
BrianFreud: Quote #13: <foodmo> BrianFreud 1) Does this address getting rid of & artists? luks 1) yes (added by: BrianFreud, views: 6, score: 0)
2007-06-29 18031, 2007
3:23 AM
phrontist
so when your files are tagged, MB would simply get all the different artists and concatenate them, probably in an order based on their relation type
2007-06-29 18046, 2007
3:23 AM
dholmes
I don't think that would be sane
2007-06-29 18047, 2007
3:23 AM
BrianFreud
that parts up to luks :)
2007-06-29 18008, 2007
3:24 AM
dholmes
There are plenty of tracks that have a dozen people contributing to them, but only one belongs in the "Artist" tag
2007-06-29 18009, 2007
3:24 AM
BrianFreud
added it as a quote, it was such good news :)
2007-06-29 18020, 2007
3:24 AM
dholmes
Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted
2007-06-29 18034, 2007
3:24 AM
phrontist
dholmes: right, but you try to design for the worst case, and keep your normal case sane
2007-06-29 18039, 2007
3:24 AM
BrianFreud
dholmes: yes, and those ought to be AR'd. But the ones that we now do as & artists, those are going away
2007-06-29 18002, 2007
3:25 AM
dholmes
phrontist: that is a normal case. Pretty much any band could have half a dozen ARs on each track, but only the band should be the artist
2007-06-29 18024, 2007
3:25 AM
BrianFreud
But then you get a case like, oh, "Queen & George Michael"
2007-06-29 18030, 2007
3:25 AM
phrontist
yeah
2007-06-29 18031, 2007
3:25 AM
phrontist
which sucks
2007-06-29 18039, 2007
3:25 AM
phrontist
collaborations are not artists
2007-06-29 18041, 2007
3:25 AM
BrianFreud
though that one's even messier than most
2007-06-29 18042, 2007
3:25 AM
BrianFreud
lol
2007-06-29 18046, 2007
3:25 AM
phrontist
HA
2007-06-29 18047, 2007
3:25 AM
dholmes
I'm happy with this solution
2007-06-29 18008, 2007
3:26 AM
phrontist
the NGS system, or the status quo?
2007-06-29 18015, 2007
3:26 AM
dholmes
The NGS system
2007-06-29 18024, 2007
3:26 AM
dholmes
The status quo drives me nuts
2007-06-29 18028, 2007
3:26 AM
BrianFreud
yeah, it's what everyone's wanted for a long time, I think
2007-06-29 18029, 2007
3:26 AM
phrontist
likewise
2007-06-29 18035, 2007
3:26 AM
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3:26 AM
phrontist
it's a bitch to transition though
2007-06-29 18039, 2007
3:26 AM
BrianFreud
nah
2007-06-29 18057, 2007
3:26 AM
phrontist
well, just from a code standpoint, it's not a spur of the moment tweak
2007-06-29 18059, 2007
3:26 AM
BrianFreud
just create a report listing all artists with & in the name. 95+% will be artists who need splitting
2007-06-29 18003, 2007
3:27 AM
dholmes
I was just about to add "Sheryl Crow & Sting" today because I couldn't get any meaningful input on that one
2007-06-29 18047, 2007
3:27 AM
BrianFreud
and then no more arguing about if you have a sortname based on a "band 1 & band 2" or just a "band" :)
2007-06-29 18031, 2007
3:28 AM
phrontist shudders
2007-06-29 18058, 2007
3:28 AM
phrontist
I'm a pretty easy going guy (I think) in every day affairs, but man does database design get me going OCD
2007-06-29 18008, 2007
3:29 AM
dholmes
That's good, though
2007-06-29 18018, 2007
3:29 AM
dholmes
DBAs need to be that way
