I think it can only be called various artists, if its a compilation album.
2007-10-22 29558, 2007
conan
otherwise its considered an artistist output of the group
2007-10-22 29512, 2007
brianfreud
I'm going to abstain on your edit, though - I do see precident for it, but the limited amount of stuff in the wiki for defining the RA for a Remix release seems to be counterindicitive
2007-10-22 29520, 2007
brianfreud
no, not really...
2007-10-22 29526, 2007
conan
its quite simple really
2007-10-22 29530, 2007
brianfreud
because we also have an AR for what you're describing
2007-10-22 29535, 2007
conan
is it an artistic output by a single body.
2007-10-22 29536, 2007
brianfreud
"release was DJ Mixed by"
2007-10-22 29548, 2007
conan
when a dj does an album, you put it under the djs name.
2007-10-22 29503, 2007
conan
like paul olkenfold
2007-10-22 29510, 2007
conan
or john digweed
2007-10-22 29511, 2007
brianfreud
lol, I've disagreed on this kind of thing before, now that you mention it
2007-10-22 29531, 2007
brianfreud
Crystal Method live bootleg, tracks properly attributed out to the artists, RA set to CM
2007-10-22 29541, 2007
conan
no self respecting dj our remixer would just copy and paste a song, which is a compilation.
2007-10-22 29557, 2007
conan
they put their own artistlic layer ontop, as such it becomes their derivitive work.
2007-10-22 29517, 2007
brianfreud
yes, but where is the line between "DJ Mixed, thus release artist" and "compiled the VA collection, so VA"?
2007-10-22 29541, 2007
brianfreud
if they're sampling, that's one thing - aka Negativeland
2007-10-22 29518, 2007
brianfreud
but if it's the entire original track, either remixed, or just with beats and such layered on, at what point does it go from being a compilation (VA) to a remix release under the mixer?
2007-10-22 29557, 2007
conan
how would the artist who did the compilation want it represented?
2007-10-22 29502, 2007
conan
he'd want it under his name
2007-10-22 29512, 2007
conan
but sound tracks, compilation albums etc all vairous artists.
2007-10-22 29513, 2007
brianfreud
or, worse case, if I remix a bunch of remixes, is the original remixer lost entirely? (I become the release artist, the original artist becomes the track artist - no way top represent the original remixer who I re-remixed)
2007-10-22 29522, 2007
conan
yes
2007-10-22 29529, 2007
conan
thats the point of derivitive works
2007-10-22 29547, 2007
conan
if you notice must remixers give attribute the original in the title.
2007-10-22 29508, 2007
brianfreud
if b is a remix of a, and c is a remix of b, you've now credited the performer for a and the remixer for c, but lost entirely the remixer for b
2007-10-22 29508, 2007
conan
you as a person have produce an album
2007-10-22 29512, 2007
conan
that album is your work of art
2007-10-22 29524, 2007
conan
thats life
2007-10-22 29532, 2007
conan
and the medium can never hold onto that information
2007-10-22 29537, 2007
brianfreud
lol, that's counterfactual :P
2007-10-22 29543, 2007
conan
sure, would also be illegal
2007-10-22 29547, 2007
conan
they would sue your arse off anyway.
2007-10-22 29550, 2007
conan
so wouldn't worry about it
2007-10-22 29525, 2007
conan
so you are looking for an extreme answer not to attribute the work to the mixer.
2007-10-22 29529, 2007
brianfreud
lol, well, as I say... gonna abstain on this one :P
2007-10-22 29540, 2007
conan
and even that extreme answer really justifies keeping the rule simple
2007-10-22 29553, 2007
srotta
There's a difference in attributing the mixer and making him the main artist in an album.
2007-10-22 29502, 2007
brianfreud
no, I just think it's better left VA with ARs, rather than trying to manipulate the remixer into the release artist, as that model quickly breaks down when you add a second layer of remixing on
2007-10-22 29509, 2007
conan
not really
2007-10-22 29547, 2007
brianfreud
not really? So in a model in which the remixer becomes the release artist, how are you retaining the remixer info for b?
2007-10-22 29553, 2007
conan
people who are fans of massive attack, theivery corporation, stanton warriors etc are gonna want it under them, not varoius artists.
2007-10-22 29500, 2007
brianfreud
it is under them
2007-10-22 29504, 2007
brianfreud
"VA Remixes"
2007-10-22 29540, 2007
conan
in reality what they are doing is no different to a album of covers songs
2007-10-22 29556, 2007
conan
you don't put cover albums under VA
2007-10-22 29505, 2007
brianfreud
no, because a (non-soundtrack/classical) cover is attributed to the performer, not the original composer
2007-10-22 29521, 2007
conan
exactly
2007-10-22 29527, 2007
conan
and the performer, the artists, is the remixer.
2007-10-22 29531, 2007
conan
the album is their body of work
2007-10-22 29532, 2007
Shepard` joined the channel
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srotta
I think it's very different. But hey, I'm not a fan of remixers anyway 8)
2007-10-22 29532, 2007
conan
thus that one is VA
2007-10-22 29532, 2007
brianfreud
not per remix style
2007-10-22 29551, 2007
conan
you just stated that there where different end artists for various tracks
2007-10-22 29552, 2007
brianfreud
It would be a Tori Amos RA and TA remix release, with remix ARs to BT and Aphex Twin
2007-10-22 29557, 2007
conan
thus its a compilation album of remixes
2007-10-22 29522, 2007
srotta
No, there's only one artist and a couple of people tweaking buttons.
2007-10-22 29524, 2007
srotta
;)
2007-10-22 29553, 2007
conan
see the difference is with stanton warriors, theivery corporation, massive attack, is the remix all tracks. thus all tracks are their derivitive works. attribution to the original artist is given in the track title.
2007-10-22 29506, 2007
conan
to look for derivitives of derivitives of derivitives is looking at an extreme case.
2007-10-22 29519, 2007
conan
and not the dominant of the vast body of work.
2007-10-22 29542, 2007
brianfreud
yes, but for a rule to work, it has to handle those cat corner cases; otherwise, your rule breaks the consistancy of listing for those cat corners
2007-10-22 29510, 2007
brianfreud
and again, you've not said why simply using the standard model, with remix ARs, isn't a better solution
2007-10-22 29506, 2007
conan
mostly because it gives no way to build a single for a body of work by an artist
2007-10-22 29513, 2007
conan
I want a folder for all my massive attack wrok
2007-10-22 29514, 2007
conan
work
2007-10-22 29519, 2007
conan
or theivery corporation work
2007-10-22 29535, 2007
conan
without this it would be harder to navigate content for a particular remix artist
2007-10-22 29550, 2007
conan
I'd get navigation only by album name
2007-10-22 29554, 2007
srotta
And there's nothing preventing you, Picard just doesn't do it by default.
2007-10-22 29513, 2007
brianfreud
My remixing a track does not make that track *originally* my performance work. It makes my work a modification, a derivative, of that original performance work. We credit the original performance and AR the modifications to it that happen after the fact.
2007-10-22 29513, 2007
conan
sure, thats what I'll probably do.
2007-10-22 29525, 2007
conan
but I think it makes things very clear and improves the current classifcation
2007-10-22 29539, 2007
conan
some people will scream blue murder if you put massive attack under VA.
2007-10-22 29546, 2007
conan
thus you've already broken your existing model
2007-10-22 29559, 2007
srotta
No, it doesn't. It would create lots of VA releases, especially singles, where there aren't any.
2007-10-22 29509, 2007
brianfreud
because people scream, cause they only pay attention to their one genre, not the schema overall?
2007-10-22 29521, 2007
brianfreud
that doesn't break the model - that's a lot of people ignoring the overall model.
2007-10-22 29556, 2007
Shepard has quit
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Shepard`
Shepard` is now known as Shepard
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CatCat
good MOOOOOrning Musicbrainz!
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CatCat
mø
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brianfreud
morning mo :)
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deadchip
massive attack as VA?
2007-10-22 29506, 2007
deadchip
how is that VA
2007-10-22 29509, 2007
deadchip
they're a group allright
2007-10-22 29526, 2007
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brianfreud
drsaunde: you'll love me... looking up and cleaning out every single TMBG nat :P
