#musicbrainz

so yes...

where pangloss, candide &maximillian are characters

yllona: http://pastebin.com/m57706668

\

let me read further, one moment

(it is just missing the namespace declaration - i ll put it on the mo wiki)

now for the characters, i have to dig up each CD, can you give me a few moments

yvesr: this will make an excellent template for musical theater and opera. you have the same components: composer, conductor, librettist, orchestra, cast of characters, and the performers who portray those characters

does that make sense?

yllona: yes

we might want to put some new terms in MO to tackle the notion of "characters" though

yvesr: yes, "roles"

it'd be great if you could post such a use-case to the MO mailing list, so that we can work on it and figure out what's missing

sure thing, i have some quiet time next week, and i'll take CDs with me... i'm house/dog sitting for friends

cool:)

i'll take works that have been recorded innumerable times... like bizet's "carmen", etc

madame butterfly, west side story, and of course the most recent example "sweeney todd"

with sweeney you have the 1979 broadway original, the 2005 revival, and now the movie in 2007

for sweeney each of the productions is very different, as is the cast (but not the roles)

yvesr: here's an example of the list of operas based upon the myth of orpheus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Orphean_op...

and i just saw a production on monday -- composed by ricky ian gordon recorded in new york in 2005 that's not on this list ^^

FauxFaux: AUDIOSURF

yvesr: that's why i think ontology is a better fit for opera and musical theater

anyway folks time for me to hit the gym-nauseum

laterz

nikki_ is now known as nikki

Is there a way I can see MB data with pending changes applied by default? Is there a preference or setting somewhere?

pbryan, nope

you can edit the metadata that's to be written if you're tagging files with picard

Okay. Is there a way in the API to get pending changes applied in the return values?

but the website reflects the current data until edits affecting it pass

Right.

i don't know

just guessing, i'd imagine not

but if you have the db locally, you can

What interface is Picard using?

which is kind of obvious, i guess

it just lets you manually edit the new metadata

It fetches this new metadata from MB, or just new metadata I might have previously applied?

current metadata, which you can edit to match the pending edits before writing it

so you have to manually reconstruct the result of the pending edits

Ah, okay.

Thanks ojnkpjg.

if there's something really obviously like a typo, if you ask around here, you can probaby get votes on the edit pretty quickly

er, obvious

Sure, that makes sense.

yllona: lol, just a small part of this big one :)

brianfreud: did you see the rdf that yvesr tossed up on musicontology? -- actually pastebin? i am very excited about this

Kerensky97 is now known as tired

no, I didn't

tired is now known as Kerensky97

brianfreud: it should be in the logs, my scrollback doesn't cover that far. about 4:30-5:00a PT?

wait i can check my local logs, one moment

found it

brianfreud: you're so much better than i am ....

Not quite sure I see how http://pastebin.com/m445fc655 applies though

brianfreud: next one

for bernstein's candide

brianfreud: yes, that's it

hmmm

now to add "roles"

honestly, I think it's still rather flat

and then the cast performs a role

rdfs:label "1956 Original Broadway Cast Recording"; should be broken out to something akin to LocationProposal + Roles

brianfreud: hey yvesr whipped this up in seconds -- totally on the fly

:)

and he's not a musical theater or classical kind of guy

1956 is the date, Broadway is the generalized location (then tied to a specific theater by Location Proposal), Original/Revival/New would be attributes to cast, and Recording would be an attribute as to whether it was a studio or live recording by that cast

hello :-)

:)

but yvesr captured the good stuff, overture, movements, etc

brianfreud: you can add the spatial location by using event:place from the performance resources to, say, a geonames geographic resource

yvesr, have you seen http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/BrianFreud/Classica... ?

and there is a Recording term in MO to capture, well, information about the recording :-)

brianfreud: no

will take a look now

yvesr: are you familiar with ISRC codes?

oh!

nice!!!

yllona: a bit

there is a mo:isrc property in mo

brianfreud: that's *really* nice

:)

yeah. that's what the "music industry" knows and they are unique identifiers for recordings (and associated trivia)

do you mind if i introduce the missing terms in MO, from your diagram?

that's the framework I've been trying to base a rewritten CSG on, so anything in there can be mapped with CSG

cool, i see

it's free for anything anyone can use it for :)

brianfreud & yvesr : hah. i love i making introductions :P

that's really great work, thanks brianfreud :)

np

To be honest, my sense on CSG is that it's a massive clusterf***, based on trying to map a database's worth of data about a classical work to a single track name.

But! It's better than the alternative,

rewrite the whole db schema ? :)

which is chaotic entry of whatever's on a liner, which 20-30% of the time isn't sufficient to even actually ID the work, let alone the version of te work.

lol, I would love "generic work instances" - a concept above luks' track masters concept, where we could store the actual work, in theory, apart from any recording,

brianfreud: at first glance at your diagram, it looks like most of the missing bits in MO are related to movements - i ll give a try at fixing that

brianfreud: as i have mentioned numerous times. grove's is definitive.

then tying the instances (recordings) of each work back to the generic - then it matters little what we title it, as you, I , etc can construct our own favorite naming scheme locally.

brianfreud: you're right

yllona: Groves is a useful guideline, but I am rereading Grove's guide to Mozart now, and it's far from comprehensive. (have noticed a few errors, due to the fact it's 20+ years old)

yvesr: i have two versions of *very* popular opera on my desk to use (no searching round) to use as test case

yllona: cool :)

brianfreud: my grove's is 2006 ;)

guide to music, or guide to Mozart?

brianfreud: i have subscriptions to guide to jazz, guide to music, guide to african american history, guide to women in music, etc

for classical, I would say the groups dedicated to that composer are the definitive source - the groves books on each source mainly from that data, just at a distance of 1-3 decades

oh, you mean the montly, I'm referring to the book series they print on classical

brianfreud: you can get grove's online free from your local university/college or the public library

sure, but for classical, I would consider the societies working on urtext scores to be the definitive; NMA, the JSBG, etc

brianfreud: yeah, the printed books lag a bit.

i still collect them though ;)

:)

oh, and grove's is adding a guide to "popular music" this year, and the online service is being completely revamped -- soft launch fall 2008

fun :)

I still consider the urtext scores to be the better source, but I will take Groves if I can't get those scores :)

i must say, the grove's jazz guide much more comprehensive than i expected -- tho notat launch, it's been a few years now. but yeah -- good stuff

groves is great about the well known (anmd lesser known) works, but when it comes to the real obscurities, or the works that have really confusing histories, I find Groves either just doesn't mention them, or they glance over it with a mention, without actually providing clarity

yep. when in doubt read the score. that's my motto

brianfreud: i gotta say that grove's is doing a much better job on contemporary or obscure composers. really check the online offerings