scanned against and internal then external database.. was nice and fast
2008-03-14 07425, 2008
yllona
BrianFreud: never underestimate madonna's ability to completely dominate the charts... this is her last album for WB, so she'll go all out, including a tour. and her fan-base (especially among the geighs) is still quite rabid
2008-03-14 07433, 2008
Aval0n
I just popped in my folder with 3,337 files
2008-03-14 07439, 2008
Aval0n
scanned and renamed
2008-03-14 07443, 2008
Aval0n
all done :)
2008-03-14 07450, 2008
BrianFreud
glad it worked out for ya
2008-03-14 07453, 2008
Aval0n
me too
2008-03-14 07400, 2008
Aval0n
I was getting very frusterated
2008-03-14 07404, 2008
Aval0n
I had little patience
2008-03-14 07411, 2008
Aval0n
I'm sure picard is much better than I give it credit for
2008-03-14 07431, 2008
Aval0n
I was just getting frusterated with it
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BrianFreud
yllona: oh, I definitely think she still has the draw power - just look how she headlined over everyone at 7-7-7. I just think she's also on her way out; ala Michael Jackson circa Black or White
2008-03-14 07448, 2008
yllona
BrianFreud: yep. on that we agree. but i also thought that about her a few years ago, and she bounced back.
2008-03-14 07453, 2008
BrianFreud
still a good album or two left, but none as good as what's already out...
2008-03-14 07418, 2008
yllona
for madonna, it's all about the videos -- always has been.
2008-03-14 07440, 2008
BrianFreud
yes, but lol, even she has to pass the Milf stage at some point XD
2008-03-14 07449, 2008
FauxFaux
Smooth Criminal. <3
2008-03-14 07458, 2008
yllona
and the tour. i don't even like her music but the shows are really incredible
2008-03-14 07412, 2008
yllona
you saw that bette midler has taken vegas by storm? great reviews and great attendance. madonna has many of the same qualities on stage, but not the same amount of talent :)
2008-03-14 07431, 2008
BrianFreud
main problem for Madonna I think... Bette has stayed pretty solid to one concept. Madonna on the other hand seems to reinvent herself every few years... and you can only do that so many times before either 1) you grab the wrong "next thing" or 2) your fans just get tired of your ever-changing styles
2008-03-14 07420, 2008
FauxFaux
Material Girl used to make me carsick.
2008-03-14 07422, 2008
BrianFreud
I think Janet Jackson had that same type of problem
2008-03-14 07424, 2008
FauxFaux
</contribution>
2008-03-14 07404, 2008
yllona
FauxFaux: yes. janet has the same problem. great show tho.
2008-03-14 07452, 2008
yllona
FauxFaux: there are som e great janet clips on the 'tubes.
2008-03-14 07459, 2008
yllona
*concert clips
2008-03-14 07411, 2008
BrianFreud
MBChatLogger: off a sec
2008-03-14 07411, 2008
MBChatLogger
is not logging
2008-03-14 07417, 2008
MBChatLogger
is logging
2008-03-14 07415, 2008
BrianFreud
the Madonna only has 7 votes :P
2008-03-14 07436, 2008
yllona
jack johnsin? i prefer ben harper or amos lee if i'm gonna take that route. to be honest i prefer a couple of the unknown locals here in LA for that style of music -- noting that Jaack Johnson and Ben Harper are LA locals :)
2008-03-14 07407, 2008
BrianFreud
totally out of my normal, but I do admit I like Justice :)
2008-03-14 07442, 2008
BrianFreud
haen't even heard of the last 4 on the list
2008-03-14 07415, 2008
yllona
madonna only has 7 votes now... she's the control freak from HELL -- so no leaks to the interwebs (yet)
2008-03-14 07451, 2008
BrianFreud
meh, there's gonna be WAY too much pressure for a leak on that one, it'll leak
2008-03-14 07404, 2008
yllona
she'll go completely batshit if the "leak" isn't choreographed the way she wants. no kidding. noone on her payroll would *dare*
2008-03-14 07420, 2008
yllona
there are just some things you don't fsck with -- one of them being madonna's need for control ;)
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yllona
BrianFreud: you didn't see a whitney houston release this year?
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BrianFreud
not with a release date yet
2008-03-14 07404, 2008
yllona
yeah, that's the buzz around town. still more work to be done
2008-03-14 07412, 2008
BrianFreud
but as for Madonna, even if it waits her control, once it hits the mfg plants, that's where most leaks happen
2008-03-14 07417, 2008
BrianFreud
and she can't control that
2008-03-14 07410, 2008
yllona
BrianFreud: yep. so that will drop as alate as possible. even if there's not enough CDs to meet initial orders
2008-03-14 07441, 2008
yllona
the main problem will be advance copies to radio & clibDJs
2008-03-14 07449, 2008
yllona
*club Djs
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BrianFreud
yes, but most leaks these days come from the plants pressing the advance copies
2008-03-14 07426, 2008
BrianFreud
quite easy, at least in theory, to stamp one perfectly good disc as a reject, and slip it out the door of the plant
2008-03-14 07436, 2008
yllona
yep. so maybe no advance copies? this wuld be nothing new....
2008-03-14 07430, 2008
yllona
and madonna could pull that maneuver off -- hand delivering copies to clubs, etc.
2008-03-14 07406, 2008
BrianFreud
yes, but someone has to make those copies ... and I can't really see her running a pressing plant all on her own
2008-03-14 07438, 2008
yllona
true. but you can do a private pressing for less than 5000 copies
2008-03-14 07401, 2008
BrianFreud
sure, but there again you have to problem that someone has to make those copies, unless you make them youself
2008-03-14 07430, 2008
yllona
like i said wait until the last possible moment
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BrianFreud
ruaok: I'm off to bed, but for whenever you might see this... In your opinion, what are the browsers the site ought to support, and how old a version? (ie, what 4.0 elements / css / etc should MB be designed for, at a oldest minimum?)
2008-03-14 07403, 2008
nikki
if it degrades gracefully it should work in any browser...
2008-03-14 07417, 2008
BrianFreud
yes, but some elements / css actually implements wrongly in older browsers
2008-03-14 07430, 2008
BrianFreud
ie, they were such borked implementations, they don't degrade, they break.
2008-03-14 07426, 2008
nikki
there are ways to make css only be loaded by sane browsers, I'm not sure which elements you're talking about
2008-03-14 07409, 2008
BrianFreud
for any given 4.0 element you could name, and some from even 3.0+, name an older browser - say IE 5 - and you can find all sorts of funky things that go wierd
2008-03-14 07407, 2008
BrianFreud
but it also defines the element set that we even ought to use - just one example, should <fieldset> be used? IE 6, FF 1.5, and Opera 8 all support it, earlier versions don't
2008-03-14 07422, 2008
nikki
and what do earlier versions do?
2008-03-14 07443, 2008
BrianFreud
depends on the browser and version
2008-03-14 07410, 2008
BrianFreud
some degrade, others simply view a fieldset section of a form as not part of the form at all
2008-03-14 07457, 2008
BrianFreud
but it's a pretty basic question: how old do we consider to be too old? how wide/narrow/tall/short a page, minimally, should things be designed for?
2008-03-14 07441, 2008
nikki
heh...
2008-03-14 07407, 2008
nikki
luks has said he uses mb on his mobile sometimes
2008-03-14 07433, 2008
nikki
and I bet other people have multiple large monitors
2008-03-14 07433, 2008
BrianFreud
it also defines how far we want to go to try to still make things work - how many hacks do we have to build in? If we still want things to look "right", and not degraded, in IE 7 that's one thing. If we're aiming at IE 5, or Netscape 3 gold, that's a totally different thing.
2008-03-14 07426, 2008
BrianFreud
yes, but when you look at handling mobiles, do we design the normal page to still somehow work on a mobile, or do we instead define 800x600 as the smallest "monitor page" and define a separate mobile 75x75 layout, etc
2008-03-14 07403, 2008
BrianFreud
so just looking for the basic params for what we're actually looking at redesigning for; what browsers, how old, and what devices
2008-03-14 07410, 2008
BrianFreud
*display devices
2008-03-14 07421, 2008
BrianFreud
(just a few examples: The current site uses some elements which were already depricated in 3.0, not in 4.0, and would prevent validation if also using 4.0 or 5.0 elements; microformat use/avoidance; form elements - cleanly degradable or 4.0 blind/deaf accessible?; what doctype are we trying to validate against; what screen size; etc...)
2008-03-14 07447, 2008
BrianFreud
and with that, off to bed :)
2008-03-14 07451, 2008
nikki
which elements does it use that are deprecated?
2008-03-14 07416, 2008
BrianFreud
center, dir, font, isindex, and menu are all used at least once
2008-03-14 07428, 2008
BrianFreud
and the 5.0 draft also depricates applet, big, tt - each of which I think is used - and noscript which is definitely used
2008-03-14 07404, 2008
BrianFreud
but say we're trying to validate for XHTML 1.0 Strict - that would then mean no applet, basefont, center, dir, frame, frameset, iframe, isindex, menu, nextid, noframes, s, strike, or u.
2008-03-14 07448, 2008
BrianFreud
Most we can live without, and any we do use we can duplicate with css, but by doing so with css, it then is more borked in the degraded version which supports the element, but not css
2008-03-14 07406, 2008
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2008-03-14 07401, 2008
BrianFreud
or aim for XHTML 2.0 Strict's draft and you lose i, b, tt, etc as well, with the same kinds of issues
2008-03-14 07412, 2008
BrianFreud
and now seriously to bed :D
2008-03-14 07414, 2008
nikki
em, strong...
2008-03-14 07427, 2008
BrianFreud
neither of which would be understood by, say, Netscape 3
2008-03-14 07452, 2008
BrianFreud
but outside of elements, it makes even more difference in css and js as to how old we're trying to support
2008-03-14 07424, 2008
nikki
I wonder if anyone's used netscape 3 in the last decade...
2008-03-14 07443, 2008
BrianFreud
I know at least one university that's still standardized on NS 3 gold
2008-03-14 07451, 2008
nikki
sucks to be them
2008-03-14 07458, 2008
BrianFreud
sure, but thus the question
2008-03-14 07458, 2008
BrianFreud
we *can* try to handle IE 5, IE 4, NS 3, NS 4, mobiles, etc - but each has a cost in requiring more hacks to still make them work, time to get the hacks to work and not break in modern browers, and generally make the code that much more fragile
2008-03-14 07416, 2008
nikki
that's why I just use xhtml type stuff and if it breaks in ancient browsers, then people should stop living in the computer version of the stone age
2008-03-14 07417, 2008
nikki
oh well
2008-03-14 07442, 2008
nikki
I know when I got online in 1999, I had IE 5 and NS 4.5 or something
2008-03-14 07411, 2008
BrianFreud
lol, yes, but the decision at to which browsers to even attempt to support does matter, as does which doctype you're aiming for. For css and js, the decision to even support IE 5 essentially doubles the amount of work to get things to work.
2008-03-14 07422, 2008
BrianFreud says anyhow, natta one more time and turns off the monitor :D
2008-03-14 07426, 2008
nikki
I remember IE 5.5 coming out a few months later and loads of people started using coloured scroll bars
2008-03-14 07451, 2008
FauxFaux
Opera still supports that. D:
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FauxFaux
"Fuck Me I'm Famous" is such a pro name for a remix.
