the hard thing is figuring out what really needs to be done.
2008-10-02 27625, 2008
ruaok
people will scream for everything all the time.
2008-10-02 27607, 2008
Muzzz screams
2008-10-02 27626, 2008
luks
I've personally never seen a box set of a sets that is identifiable on it's own (e.g. by EAN or catalog number)
2008-10-02 27627, 2008
Muzzz
I meant to type 'creams' there
2008-10-02 27628, 2008
srotta
nikki: And yeah, I think that's ugly as hell, isn't really logical, and now we have multiple copies of AC/DC albums where the only difference is that one's named after a box set and the other one's not.
2008-10-02 27637, 2008
ruaok
luks: now the question is this: Can we come up with some sort of schema that uses our current schema and adds the BBC's CI while taking us a step towards NGS>
2008-10-02 27627, 2008
luks
ruaok: if I understand what they mean by CI, then yes
2008-10-02 27636, 2008
nikki is sure japanese box sets have their own catalogue numbers
2008-10-02 27606, 2008
ruaok
luks: would you do me a favor and sketch out how you see that could be done?
2008-10-02 27624, 2008
nikki
hmm... guess it depends exactly what you mean by it, I guess the box would have a barcode, the discs within the box set have catalogue numbers
2008-10-02 27639, 2008
ruaok
then we could take that fluff it up and toss it over to the BBC as a first stab at defining it and seeing if it fits their needs....
2008-10-02 27606, 2008
luks
nikki: yes, but you said you have a box set that includes box sets
2008-10-02 27607, 2008
warp
srotta: i think that's part of a larger problem, there are many other reasons to duplicate a release with the current schema. and _that_ is the problem.
2008-10-02 27617, 2008
luks
nikki: does the top level box set have a catalog number?
2008-10-02 27631, 2008
luks
nikki: in my experience is just a package to sell more items at once
ruaok: ignoring artist changes, ignoring track changes
2008-10-02 27654, 2008
warp
luks: i think the brilliant classics Bach Edition qualifies.
2008-10-02 27656, 2008
ruaok
including the label changes?
2008-10-02 27610, 2008
nikki doesn't have all her CDs handy
2008-10-02 27619, 2008
luks
technically there are no label changes
2008-10-02 27632, 2008
nikki
well technically I do, I just don't have the key to open the box handy
2008-10-02 27639, 2008
ruaok
except for separating the label and labelname tables?
2008-10-02 27647, 2008
luks
yep
2008-10-02 27601, 2008
luks
which isn't really that useful for labels
2008-10-02 27603, 2008
ruaok
so then medium would connect to our current album?
2008-10-02 27617, 2008
srotta
The whole box set thing is sort of a mystery to me, particularly the way it's documented and how it's implemented in edits, in practice. For example, me and inhouseuk have some differing views about an Elton John album (http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9432442)
2008-10-02 27633, 2008
warp
luks: the whole thing is one box with 155 cds in it, barcode and catalog. but the box has also been released in seperate volumes. Same music content, but the package uses a different volume/disc numbering scheme.
2008-10-02 27652, 2008
luks
ruaok: I'd like album AND tracklist to be the current album. album would take the meta data, tracklist would take the list of tracks and discids
2008-10-02 27628, 2008
luks
ruaok: er, sorry, I meant from tracklist to right buttom
2008-10-02 27632, 2008
ruaok
ah.
2008-10-02 27611, 2008
ruaok
and that would then essentially replace the album and release tables?
2008-10-02 27623, 2008
ruaok
albumjoin would be where tracklisttrack is now?
2008-10-02 27628, 2008
luks
yes
2008-10-02 27649, 2008
ruaok
I think that is imminenty doable.
2008-10-02 27604, 2008
ruaok
and I think the BBC will likely be ok with that.
2008-10-02 27607, 2008
luks
release technically stays untouched, except it has a title and multiple catalog numbers instead of one
2008-10-02 27645, 2008
ruaok
would it make sense to do albumtitle in this round or wait til next?
2008-10-02 27624, 2008
ruaok
and the release.gid == summit8.PackageId ?
2008-10-02 27638, 2008
luks
every release needs a title, so either we have heavily duplicated data or we separate albumtitle from album
2008-10-02 27642, 2008
luks
yes
2008-10-02 27603, 2008
ruaok
one go sounds smarter
2008-10-02 27609, 2008
ruaok
ok, I think I grok.
2008-10-02 27623, 2008
ruaok
thats a perfect sized chunk for an intermediary step.
2008-10-02 27644, 2008
ruaok
and from the looks of it artistcredit might make another one.'
2008-10-02 27637, 2008
luks
I had one idea about how the *title/name tables are handled, but I want to benchmark it before
2008-10-02 27602, 2008
ruaok is curious
2008-10-02 27650, 2008
luks
in my current schema they are bound to artist/album, the idea was to move the link to artist/album to artistcreditname and release
2008-10-02 27615, 2008
luks
that would mean less text duplication in albumtitle, but a little more data in release
2008-10-02 27628, 2008
luks
it would also mean a direct link from release to album
2008-10-02 27620, 2008
luks
currently it can save ~100k album titles
2008-10-02 27653, 2008
ruaok
thats a significant change on the CI proposal, no?
2008-10-02 27609, 2008
ruaok
how much effort to benchmark that?
2008-10-02 27616, 2008
luks
not really, I'd say it's just a technical detail
2008-10-02 27624, 2008
luks
the core schema is still the same
2008-10-02 27649, 2008
ruaok
granted, but its a decision we need to make before we start on CI
2008-10-02 27601, 2008
luks
yes
2008-10-02 27645, 2008
ruaok
how will you benchmark that?
2008-10-02 27612, 2008
luks
implementing both in postgres
2008-10-02 27634, 2008
nikki leaves to get a train to uni
2008-10-02 27608, 2008
luks
but I think for album/release it's quite easy decision
2008-10-02 27620, 2008
luks
for artists it's harder
2008-10-02 27648, 2008
ruaok
since we can't quantify the data in the new structure.
2008-10-02 27626, 2008
ruaok
well, since the core schema doesn't change, I don't really have to address this issue *now*.
2008-10-02 27641, 2008
luks
I'll try to draw some diagram how I'd integrate into the current schema
2008-10-02 27604, 2008
luks
and some SQL how to convert the data
2008-10-02 27651, 2008
ruaok
awesome.
2008-10-02 27607, 2008
ruaok
I'll start the conversation with the BBC to see if we can get this on the road.
2008-10-02 27644, 2008
Wizzcat
"321,271,968 4.74M/s eta 2m 45s" speedy pipe you got :>
2008-10-02 27659, 2008
luks
ruaok: still awake?
2008-10-02 27606, 2008
ruaok
barely.
2008-10-02 27620, 2008
luks
ok, let's talk tommorow :)
2008-10-02 27629, 2008
ruaok
Wizzcat: downloads off that machine are throttled.
2008-10-02 27642, 2008
ruaok
I hope to fix that before too long, now that we have a better switch.
2008-10-02 27600, 2008
ruaok
luks: will you be around in 8 hours or so?
2008-10-02 27609, 2008
luks
yes
2008-10-02 27618, 2008
ruaok
cool.
2008-10-02 27626, 2008
ruaok
then again, I'm curious. again. :)
2008-10-02 27644, 2008
ruaok
I can always re-read the logs in the morning, so hit me. :-)
2008-10-02 27646, 2008
luks
well, why is dateadded in table album? :)
2008-10-02 27654, 2008
luks
it obviously should be in albummeta
2008-10-02 27616, 2008
ruaok
urm. ya.
2008-10-02 27624, 2008
ruaok makes a note
2008-10-02 27610, 2008
ruaok
my GF will be out of town this weekend and there is rain forecast.
2008-10-02 27615, 2008
ruaok hopes for a nice coding weekend
2008-10-02 27637, 2008
luks has similar plans
2008-10-02 27609, 2008
warp
:D
2008-10-02 27614, 2008
ruaok
natta everyone...
2008-10-02 27618, 2008
ruaok has quit
2008-10-02 27622, 2008
ruaok joined the channel
2008-10-02 27637, 2008
ruaok
so I managed to close my eyes...
2008-10-02 27653, 2008
ruaok
and I figured out why dateadded is in album, not albummeta
2008-10-02 27620, 2008
luks
why?
2008-10-02 27624, 2008
ruaok
dateadded is not derivable from other datat. the moderation tables may not be present. or they may be pruned.
2008-10-02 27634, 2008
ruaok
albummeta can be easily regenerated.
2008-10-02 27640, 2008
luks
hmm
2008-10-02 27651, 2008
ruaok
if you have any ideas, I'll read the chatlog in the am.
2008-10-02 27652, 2008
ruaok
bad time.
2008-10-02 27654, 2008
ruaok
natta
2008-10-02 27657, 2008
ruaok has quit
2008-10-02 27607, 2008
aCiD2 joined the channel
2008-10-02 27614, 2008
FauxFaux
aCiD2: Back at uni? \o/
2008-10-02 27638, 2008
UncleRemus has quit
2008-10-02 27620, 2008
Muzzz
His hostmask says yes :P
2008-10-02 27656, 2008
Muzzz is now at Birmingham New Street waitinh for his Welsh connection :/
2008-10-02 27601, 2008
FauxFaux
Lucky you.
2008-10-02 27601, 2008
Muzzz
Or not
2008-10-02 27613, 2008
Muzzz
my train was JUST cancelled :/
2008-10-02 27631, 2008
Muzzz
Time to take the long route, sigh
2008-10-02 27642, 2008
FauxFaux
Ow.
2008-10-02 27652, 2008
FauxFaux
Leaves on the line!
2008-10-02 27608, 2008
Muzzz
heh
2008-10-02 27603, 2008
FauxFaux
I asusme you noticed, they have a pair of dates within which they expect leaves on the line.
2008-10-02 27625, 2008
FauxFaux
Iirc it's after 2:30pm on 4th Dec that no more leaves are allowed on the line.
2008-10-02 27628, 2008
Muzzz
I've seen sheep on the line before
2008-10-02 27638, 2008
FauxFaux
Welcome to wales.
2008-10-02 27600, 2008
Muzzz
Only in Wales
2008-10-02 27648, 2008
Muzzz runs to get the Pendolino to Wolverhampton
2008-10-02 27642, 2008
stillLotR wonders why Muzzz is going into wales
2008-10-02 27637, 2008
Muzzz
Girlfriend
2008-10-02 27644, 2008
Muzzz
I wouldn't bother otherwise , it's shit there
2008-10-02 27601, 2008
aCiD2
FauxFaux: yessir
2008-10-02 27615, 2008
stillLotR
ah, so that's how you met her.. the sheep on the line you mentioned before ;)
2008-10-02 27650, 2008
aCiD2
"Oh, so you're into that TOO!"
2008-10-02 27659, 2008
Muzzz
Heh, I met her in London not knowing she'd feck off to uni in Wales :|
2008-10-02 27634, 2008
Muzzz
I feel conned etc
2008-10-02 27648, 2008
Muzzz also feels FauxFaux's mum
2008-10-02 27659, 2008
aCiD2
You feel her pain when she sees your face?
2008-10-02 27620, 2008
Muzzz
"face"
2008-10-02 27629, 2008
Muzzz
"pain"
2008-10-02 27602, 2008
inhouseuk
Where the Reading -> London Waterloo line crosses the River Thames at Egham, there are regularly Swans on the line. As they are protected birds, the trains have to stop until they can be tempted to leave.
