Yeah.. and adding this "unknown track" and such.. :shrugs:
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
nikki_
I don't see anything saying it's a future release.
2006-06-08 15955, 2006
luks
now it isn't
2006-06-08 15909, 2006
luks
but it was at the time of adding
2006-06-08 15923, 2006
luks
and i'm still not sure if it really exists :/
2006-06-08 15953, 2006
luks
there is a lot of different pirate copies on torrent sites
2006-06-08 15915, 2006
nikki_
I don't see how it's any different to all the albums that get imported without proof
2006-06-08 15929, 2006
luks
nobody can add album without proof if i'm subscribed to the artist :p
2006-06-08 15951, 2006
nikki_
it happens to other artists though
2006-06-08 15926, 2006
Nyght
well the only way you can try and stop that is massive checking on all coming in albums.
2006-06-08 15927, 2006
Shepard
you can't stop automods from adding future releases though :)
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
Nyght
True Shep
2006-06-08 15942, 2006
Shepard
like me
2006-06-08 15906, 2006
Nyght
of course... I prefer to only add once I have a cd myself...
2006-06-08 15907, 2006
teleGUISE
i dont really understand what the whole whoopla is to get a future release in when 2/3 of the time they dont even know all the data... (ie.. track times, catalog #)
2006-06-08 15941, 2006
luks
well, they have their downloaded mp3s and they want tag them
2006-06-08 15903, 2006
Nyght
Or on that off chance of an artist no longer performing, creating to finish out their discography, but that's so few as to be almost nonexistent.
2006-06-08 15908, 2006
teleGUISE
just so they can tag there bootleg copy? ... just manually edit the damn tags... I really think its ooh boy look im cool i have this before you guys do type of thing.. I mean if its released June 8th I can wait till June 8th to enter it in the db
2006-06-08 15937, 2006
Shepard
I only add them when it's shortly before the release so it is most unlikely they change the tracklist and when I have definitive data from the artist's website
2006-06-08 15950, 2006
Nyght
but either you say no future releases, or you allow them.
2006-06-08 15953, 2006
teleGUISE
the only couple i've entered ahead of time were ones I had a feeling were going to get entered -wrong- so being i had all the info entered it so it would be done correct
2006-06-08 15903, 2006
Nyght
You start demanding disc id's for those few that have the promo and people will just start burning them
2006-06-08 15919, 2006
nikki_
I've entered quite a few, including a couple where a preordered CD arrived way early
2006-06-08 15942, 2006
Shepard
teleGUISE: right. before someone adds crap, I add it correctly :)
2006-06-08 15956, 2006
teleGUISE
nikki_ but thats different of course you had the real deal!
2006-06-08 15951, 2006
teleGUISE
Shepard: exactly... i did that with a Madonna release or 2 and several others.. things you know that people are going to add borked up track titling or something wrong that you/i or someone would have to fix later
2006-06-08 15957, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: what's the difference between adding an album based on the label's website before the release date and adding an album based on the release date after the release date?
2006-06-08 15904, 2006
nikki_
err
2006-06-08 15913, 2006
nikki_
adding an album based on the label site after the release date
2006-06-08 15916, 2006
MrQwerty joined the channel
2006-06-08 15938, 2006
Nyght
Nokko., usually afterwards you can find it a few places to cross reference for one.
2006-06-08 15943, 2006
Nyght
nikki too
2006-06-08 15959, 2006
Shepard
I've seen amazon entries with tracklistings of promos long after the album has been released
2006-06-08 15900, 2006
nikki_
I can usually find stuff mentioning the track listing before too
2006-06-08 15916, 2006
Nyght thinks nikki spelled nokko looks very jpop
2006-06-08 15927, 2006
Shepard
so it actually makes no difference, sites can be wrong before and after
2006-06-08 15931, 2006
teleGUISE
nikki_ aritst websites don't list a downloadable disc id you can attach to musicbrainz :)
2006-06-08 15945, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: so I shouldn't add them at all?
2006-06-08 15920, 2006
Nyght
Right Shep but, for the one or two incorrect listings you can show me, I can show you about five to ten correct track listings. :D
2006-06-08 15922, 2006
teleGUISE
there is a difference between what you, i, shep, nyght and people like us would add ahead of time and others .. you know that.. some people care and others just care about their tags
2006-06-08 15954, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: so how do you know when you a trust an editor?
2006-06-08 15919, 2006
Nyght
Yeah, I add strange promos that are real and seldom used. :D
nikki_ obviously u cant... though i do think it should be part of code of conduct for -all- AutoMods to make sure -complete- and accurate info is only added otherwise they should be required to turn automod privies off on adds of that type
2006-06-08 15915, 2006
Nyght waits the near hour for it to open up
2006-06-08 15917, 2006
nikki_
if someone can back up their add album with some proof, we can judge at a later date whether the data is wrong
2006-06-08 15926, 2006
Nyght will be glad once the psp is done getting videos
2006-06-08 15951, 2006
teleGUISE
eh.. thats the more data that needs fixing is better than less data theory.. which i definitely dont support
2006-06-08 15919, 2006
teleGUISE
add it correctly the first time and be done with it.. we have too many releases to have to keep redoing crap.
2006-06-08 15924, 2006
nikki_
I just don't see how we can really say "all data is wrong until the release date"
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
teleGUISE
whats the big hurry?
2006-06-08 15955, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: yeah, and all the ones added before the release date I've seen have been the same afterwards.
2006-06-08 15957, 2006
teleGUISE
and im not saying its "all data is wrong" but why do we have to rush it in?
and I never said that all albums added before are correct
2006-06-08 15946, 2006
Shepard
Nyght: you could have looked at MB, we have it correctly ;)
2006-06-08 15954, 2006
nikki_
and not all albums added *afterwards* are correct
2006-06-08 15924, 2006
Nyght
Shep, that defeats the point.
2006-06-08 15950, 2006
nikki_
in some cases, nobody even realises that the info is wrong until they put the CD in the drive and find out someone put the tracks in the wrong order on the CD
2006-06-08 15952, 2006
Shepard
I just mean: if amazon can have promo tracklistings even *after* the release date, then someone could use that data for adding a release. it just all is a matter of how carefully you add releases
2006-06-08 15909, 2006
teleGUISE
obviously... my main complaint about those adds are -many- do -not- have track times... thats bull crap.. it should be required. I dont care if its not part of their tag. To add a release you should know the damn track times in those cases. otherwise wait till its released and the track times are there
2006-06-08 15911, 2006
Nyght
true nikki, but most of those are imports. (freedb, or otherwise copied instead of printer error (one I know of) and cover mistaken from end user.)
2006-06-08 15934, 2006
Nyght
Shep, I give you that point!
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
Shepard
if I add a release carefully before the release date then that's as good as adding it carefully after
2006-06-08 15943, 2006
nikki_
I know two cases of album covers not matching the CD
2006-06-08 15959, 2006
nikki_
exactly, shep
2006-06-08 15904, 2006
Shepard
yeah, you can always find confusing tracklistings out there
2006-06-08 15915, 2006
nikki_
and people adding info carelessly before is just as bad as people adding info carelessly after
2006-06-08 15916, 2006
Synchro
Synchro is now known as Syn|Away
2006-06-08 15944, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: also, you could just as easily say "what's the rush? why not wait until you have a disc ID..."
2006-06-08 15953, 2006
Nyght
well nikki, you deal with more broad musical scope than I do. ;)
2006-06-08 15900, 2006
MartinRudat woo!s archive.org has pre-buyout mp3.com ... I might be able to find evidence for track existance (beyond having it)
2006-06-08 15911, 2006
nikki_
it does!?
2006-06-08 15913, 2006
nikki_
:O
2006-06-08 15921, 2006
teleGUISE
nikki_ yes and no.. but you know now it's hard to say because of online downloads that are legit, so not everyone will have a disc id
2006-06-08 15940, 2006
Shepard
I had albums where I did lots of research and finally thought I had them fixed in MB because all covers and tracklistings found indicated that. then I bought it and found it was all wrong
2006-06-08 15951, 2006
Nyght
Martin! Very cool!
2006-06-08 15902, 2006
teleGUISE
we either ramp up our requirements or just work in a viscious circle trying to clean up freedb
2006-06-08 15946, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: er?
2006-06-08 15910, 2006
teleGUISE
i think someone entering releases before the release date could be asked or warned a couple of times... it won't cure all but it's a start
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
Nyght
well part of the problem is people have a huge problem with the word proof.
2006-06-08 15940, 2006
nikki_
asked or warned about what?
2006-06-08 15949, 2006
teleGUISE
we can't moderate every release... as we well know by constantly having 7000edits + to vote on
2006-06-08 15924, 2006
nikki_
we can't edit every release people add that *has* been released either
2006-06-08 15949, 2006
teleGUISE
to provide every piece of information... a release date/country and track times should be required... (im not talking about the exceptions, like trying to complete a discog with vinyls) im talking about the day to day entries.. there is no reason this information should not be known and entered
2006-06-08 15926, 2006
nikki_
and if you don't think all info before it's been released is wrong, what *is* the difference between before and after release?
2006-06-08 15943, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: errrr, but you could say that about almost any add album
2006-06-08 15948, 2006
teleGUISE
its proof and fact the more questions you ask the more information you shall receive period..
2006-06-08 15924, 2006
nikki_
oh, I give up.
2006-06-08 15933, 2006
Shepard
I don't think tracktimes should be required (as in you cannot enter a release without, not as in by guideline)
2006-06-08 15946, 2006
teleGUISE
the difference is when a track order or track list changes because it was preliminary and then when it was released it changed
2006-06-08 15925, 2006
teleGUISE
Shepard: those are the exceptions im not saying it's mandatory because of the exceptions but you should be required to say why they arent there. and yes make them say something
2006-06-08 15917, 2006
nikki_ doesn't like the way we're heading into forcing people to provide information rather than encouraging them to provide it.
2006-06-08 15940, 2006
teleGUISE
like i said the more questions you ask the more chance you have at getting an answer that's all.. I was surprised the couple times i went through on add album adds and asked to Please Provide a URL/record-label/catalog #/upc-ean and *Actually* received answers! so people are willing to give it, if you ask for it
2006-06-08 15907, 2006
teleGUISE
it's not force .. it's ask and ye shall receive (more times than if you don't ask)
2006-06-08 15914, 2006
MrQwerty` has quit
2006-06-08 15926, 2006
nikki_
making guidelines about it counts as forcing to me.
2006-06-08 15926, 2006
MrQwerty` joined the channel
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
nikki_
either you provide it or have to explain why you're not following the guidelines
2006-06-08 15935, 2006
teleGUISE
well call it what you will if we don't ask we won't get it..that's what im saying and yes you should have to explain why your not following a 'normal' quideline.. we have plenty of guidelines with exceptions already. I dont see how this would be different
2006-06-08 15941, 2006
Nyght
Perhaps because you see guidelines as rules Nikki? Unfortunately many people seem to.
2006-06-08 15955, 2006
nikki_
Nyght: not particularly, but many people do
2006-06-08 15957, 2006
teleGUISE
a guide line is a "GUIDE" line not a "RULE"line
2006-06-08 15922, 2006
nikki_
but are they really guidelines if people then go and demand to know why people aren't following them?
2006-06-08 15950, 2006
nikki_
meh.
2006-06-08 15953, 2006
teleGUISE
whats demanding by asking a question.. did you read what I said.. I said Please provide .... and people do
2006-06-08 15906, 2006
Nyght
nikki, some do... and that's just as bad in my opinion.
2006-06-08 15917, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about making guidelines about adding track times
2006-06-08 15919, 2006
MrQwerty has quit
2006-06-08 15925, 2006
teleGUISE
i just hate typing that on every damn add edit manually.. or c&p ing.
2006-06-08 15902, 2006
teleGUISE
well obviously cause you dont care if they are there or not is what it comes down to, am i right?
2006-06-08 15913, 2006
nikki_
yes.
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
teleGUISE
no reason to debate this any further (i do, you don't) we can go round and round
2006-06-08 15910, 2006
nikki_
I guess I'm happy with a release with tracknames.
2006-06-08 15916, 2006
teleGUISE
im tbe one searching a* g and discogs tons of times filling in those track times your not.. if you did you would see what a PITA it is to do :P
2006-06-08 15922, 2006
ilyak_ joined the channel
2006-06-08 15942, 2006
Nyght
Incredible. :)
2006-06-08 15944, 2006
teleGUISE
hey your allowed to be happy with that.. i won't try to take that away from you :)
2006-06-08 15956, 2006
nikki_
teleGUISE: I know what a pain in the arse it is, and I don't care about track times so I don't bother doing it.
2006-06-08 15907, 2006
nikki_
it's not *my* fault people like you do :P
2006-06-08 15910, 2006
Nyght
at the same time.. I think a lot of people don't care about the track times, and others don't care about the precision of them either.
2006-06-08 15917, 2006
teleGUISE
its just im not... I like to see all the boxes filled in.. i dont like ?:?? screwing up my nice list
well of course not because it doesnt do anything for them to tag their music whether they are there or not..
2006-06-08 15924, 2006
teleGUISE
you know we are the only ones I believe besides a* g that actually uses real track times plus hand edited ones.. you do know that all discogs track times are Manually entered
2006-06-08 15936, 2006
nikki_
nope
2006-06-08 15946, 2006
nikki_ doesn't care about discogs or amg either :D
2006-06-08 15949, 2006
teleGUISE
nope you didnt know?
2006-06-08 15952, 2006
Nyght
That's not cool
2006-06-08 15954, 2006
nikki_
nope, I didn't know
2006-06-08 15910, 2006
nikki_
amg is s l o w and discogs is full of manky transliterations.
2006-06-08 15925, 2006
nikki_ likes mb and its unicode <3
2006-06-08 15938, 2006
nikki_ stabs the channel with F=ma and goes to revise physics
2006-06-08 15941, 2006
teleGUISE
the reason i know (or should say I assume) is because i've have caught many,many track times reversed like (2:05) entered (2:50) track times like (2:5) etc...
