Kasra, dammah and something else being the 3 arabic ones
2006-08-10 22221, 2006
nikki_
but it's not a vowel
2006-08-10 22236, 2006
nightgroove
to you, y isnot a vovwel
2006-08-10 22240, 2006
mustaqila
From an English view, no, but it's considered one
2006-08-10 22247, 2006
nikki_
it's *not* a vowel!
2006-08-10 22250, 2006
nikki_
it's a consonant
2006-08-10 22250, 2006
nightgroove
to me it definitely is
2006-08-10 22201, 2006
nightgroove
it is definitely a vowle!
2006-08-10 22201, 2006
mustaqila
Arabic doesn't have an actual letter for a place a, i or u noise, it's an accent added to the consonant
2006-08-10 22210, 2006
mustaqila
Err, wtf "place2?
2006-08-10 22223, 2006
nikki_
nightgroove: that's different, we have different sounds attached to the squiggle 'y'
2006-08-10 22234, 2006
Shepard
hi
2006-08-10 22238, 2006
nikki_
nightgroove: if you say the norwegian sound, even english speakers will say it's a vowel
2006-08-10 22239, 2006
nightgroove
wtf is a squiggle y?
2006-08-10 22250, 2006
nikki_
the character
2006-08-10 22210, 2006
mustaqila
The sukun which indicates the stop in the phonetical sound is handled exactly the same as the "vowels" are
2006-08-10 22220, 2006
mustaqila
Hence why in Arabic it's considered a vowel
2006-08-10 22228, 2006
nikki_
mustaqila: but I'm not talking about the writing system
2006-08-10 22245, 2006
nikki_
mustaqila: I'm talking about the actual sounds used in the language
2006-08-10 22249, 2006
mustaqila
It's considered to be a vowel based on teh method in which you write it
2006-08-10 22254, 2006
nikki_
can you say "k glottal stop t"?
2006-08-10 22257, 2006
mustaqila
To an arab that is
2006-08-10 22230, 2006
mustaqila
Okay, in English "ktb" would be nonsense, in Arabic, if accented correctly it would be a perfectly usable word
2006-08-10 22235, 2006
nikki_
jnpoifns
2006-08-10 22240, 2006
nightgroove
in norwegian, the letters where the sound of it inside words and its name is the same, are vowels, and its sound doesn't change, c can be ss and kk ut its name is seh for example
2006-08-10 22247, 2006
nikki_
how do you *pronounce* ktb?
2006-08-10 22256, 2006
mustaqila
Depends how you accent it
2006-08-10 22259, 2006
nikki_
nkov[d'ssd
2006-08-10 22206, 2006
nikki_
you're not even understanding what I'm saying
2006-08-10 22210, 2006
mustaqila
You could add a sukun, which is the stop, and that is handled as a vowel
2006-08-10 22210, 2006
nikki_
forget how you write it
2006-08-10 22217, 2006
nikki_
pretend arabic has no writing system
2006-08-10 22224, 2006
nightgroove
:(
2006-08-10 22258, 2006
nightgroove
:(
2006-08-10 22222, 2006
nightgroove
:(
2006-08-10 22212, 2006
nikki_
A speech sound, created by the relatively free passage of breath through the larynx and oral cavity, usually forming the most prominent and central sound of a syllable. <- the glottal stop *stops* the flow of air.
2006-08-10 22225, 2006
nikki_
hence the name.
2006-08-10 22204, 2006
nikki_
by its very nature it can't be a vowel
2006-08-10 22217, 2006
mustaqila
It's still treated as one though
2006-08-10 22225, 2006
nightgroove
:(
2006-08-10 22246, 2006
nightgroove
:/
2006-08-10 22251, 2006
nightgroove
I don't want to go
2006-08-10 22258, 2006
nightgroove
but I promised my mom I'd visit again
2006-08-10 22202, 2006
nikki_
who fucking cares. most english speakers can't get their heads around w and y being vowels in other languages, despite their own language often using them as such
2006-08-10 22221, 2006
nightgroove
she says they're almost kicking her out
2006-08-10 22226, 2006
mustaqila
It's like you can't get your head around it being a vowel in arabic, albeit it wouldn't be one in English :P
2006-08-10 22233, 2006
nikki_
no
2006-08-10 22238, 2006
nightgroove
;_;
2006-08-10 22241, 2006
nightgroove
T_T
2006-08-10 22243, 2006
nightgroove
TT_TT
2006-08-10 22246, 2006
nikki_
the sound is not a vowel by definition
2006-08-10 22223, 2006
nightgroove
√ :((((
2006-08-10 22228, 2006
nikki_
poor mo
2006-08-10 22204, 2006
nightgroove
hadet
2006-08-10 22213, 2006
nightgroove
please try not to argue while I'm gone
2006-08-10 22216, 2006
mustaqila goes back to doing work
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nikki_
mustaqila: btw, I'd like to see some pages that say the glottal stop is really a vowel, all the ones I've seen put all the diacritics together but explain that the sukun is the *absense* of a vowel.
2006-08-10 22224, 2006
Pongue
Hm. some albuns are not showing the image, but there is image on MB database, how can I force load?
2006-08-10 22237, 2006
Pongue
Another thing in release Queen at The Beeb the ASIN number is right (clicking show the proper album on Amazon) but it wont show the album image on MB website.
2006-08-10 22221, 2006
nikki_
and while I'm still irritated, english speakers would say 'y' is not a vowel, and would say words like 'sky' contain no vowels, but what's actually *pronounced*, [skai] or thereabouts, does contain vowels. arabic speakers may say a word with the sukun has a vowel, but that doesn't mean that when pronounced, it really will contain a vowel.
2006-08-10 22214, 2006
nikki_
english speakers also say we have 5 vowels, but we really have about 14 (excluding diphthongs). people's perception of their language is altered by how they write it.
2006-08-10 22226, 2006
lauri
and accent, to a point
2006-08-10 22237, 2006
lauri
I suspect us kiwis have a few extra dipthongs compared to a very proper brit :)
2006-08-10 22240, 2006
nikki_
yeah, the exact number of vowels depends on accent, but all varieties of english I know of have quite a few more than 5
2006-08-10 22213, 2006
nikki_
yet the vast majority of english speakers would quickly say 5 if asked how many vowels english has
2006-08-10 22220, 2006
lauri
interestingly, most foreigners have a hell of a time pronouncing swedish vowels, but I found them easy
2006-08-10 22229, 2006
lauri
they align almost perfectly with maori
2006-08-10 22235, 2006
lauri
I just cant pronounce swedish r's :)
2006-08-10 22206, 2006
nikki_
maori :o
2006-08-10 22207, 2006
lauri
yeah, I have a wacky accent in english these days :)
2006-08-10 22236, 2006
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Shepard
hi Freso, Kerensky97
2006-08-10 22258, 2006
Kerensky97
hello
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Freso
привет Shepsky.
2006-08-10 22242, 2006
Freso
(Because German is almost like Russian...)
2006-08-10 22245, 2006
nikki_
O_o
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Shepard
sure...
2006-08-10 22239, 2006
nikki_ wonders if shep can even read what it says, let alone understand it
2006-08-10 22209, 2006
Shepard
I can see the cyrillic characters
2006-08-10 22218, 2006
nikki_
but can you read them? :D
2006-08-10 22224, 2006
Shepard
no
2006-08-10 22235, 2006
nikki_
it says privet
2006-08-10 22241, 2006
mudcrow
it says Sherbert
2006-08-10 22244, 2006
Shepard
I'm happy I can see it already!
2006-08-10 22258, 2006
nikki_
mudcrow lies >(
2006-08-10 22234, 2006
Shepard
on his bed? :P
2006-08-10 22211, 2006
Shepard
bah, your silly language supports my sillyness
2006-08-10 22241, 2006
mudcrow
it really says Greetings
2006-08-10 22229, 2006
mudcrow
привет пастух
2006-08-10 22235, 2006
VxJasonxV
Greetings nikki_, that time?
2006-08-10 22246, 2006
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mudcrow
пастух = shepherd, closest I could get
2006-08-10 22258, 2006
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Freso
Oh well.
2006-08-10 22212, 2006
Freso
Sayonara for now.
2006-08-10 22213, 2006
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VxJasonxV
oh, greetings Shepard
2006-08-10 22210, 2006
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PRAEst76_
PRAEst76_ is now known as PRAEst76
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lilo
[Global Notice] Hi all. If you've been disconnected by a kiddie using the DC C exploit, please reconnect to freenode using port 8001, instead of the default port (6667). Thanks.
2006-08-10 22213, 2006
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Shepard
tag schika
2006-08-10 22235, 2006
Schika
Hallo :)
2006-08-10 22228, 2006
nikki_
hehehe
2006-08-10 22233, 2006
Shepard
hm?
2006-08-10 22243, 2006
nikki_
just wondering why you sometimes say tag and sometimes tach
