#musicbrainz

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      • dholmes
        Yeah

        • 2006-08-20 23258, 2006

      • dholmes
        It's awful, but it gets the job done

        • 2006-08-20 23228, 2006

      • deadchip
        well bmpx will get the job done too :P

        • 2006-08-20 23235, 2006

      • dholmes
        Excellent =D

        • 2006-08-20 23212, 2006

      • deadchip
        if you get Linux running on the machine you should really try it out, you could be surprised how simple and effective it deals with retagging files

        • 2006-08-20 23221, 2006

      • deadchip
        it also has provisions for usual borkages like

        • 2006-08-20 23235, 2006

      • deadchip
        where you have a set of files where e.g. the casing of the album is different

        • 2006-08-20 23241, 2006

      • deadchip
        e.g. "Some album" vs. "Some Album"

        • 2006-08-20 23247, 2006

      • deadchip
        they are of course listed distinct in the library

        • 2006-08-20 23200, 2006

      • deadchip
        but you can just select them both, use the retagging dialog, find the right release, and group them together

        • 2006-08-20 23209, 2006

      • deadchip
        or any number of albums for that matter

        • 2006-08-20 23233, 2006

      • deadchip
        and collections solve the "i have a bunch of files that i want to keep together in my library but which are unrelated otherwise" problem

        • 2006-08-20 23243, 2006

      • dholmes
        So here's another thing that I was just having a problem with

        • 2006-08-20 23249, 2006

      • deadchip
        you just create a collection where the main attribute is the path, and it creates a collection item with all those tracks

        • 2006-08-20 23258, 2006

      • dholmes
        Jimmy Eat World has two, completely separate self-titled albums

        • 2006-08-20 23206, 2006

      • dholmes
        Can you distinguish between the two? =D

        • 2006-08-20 23224, 2006

      • deadchip
        yeah if they have a different release id

        • 2006-08-20 23233, 2006

      • dholmes
        Sweet

        • 2006-08-20 23249, 2006

      • deadchip
        otherwise if they are manually tagged it's of course not possible

        • 2006-08-20 23208, 2006

      • deadchip
        i mean

        • 2006-08-20 23213, 2006

      • deadchip
        no app could do that if the names are identical

        • 2006-08-20 23218, 2006

      • dholmes
        http://musicbrainz.org/release/ae147f6c-8a98-4d3a… and http://musicbrainz.org/release/a5eade3a-a96a-4a25…

        • 2006-08-20 23224, 2006

      • dholmes
        1994 and 2001 respectively

        • 2006-08-20 23228, 2006

      • deadchip
        but having an additional criterion like the release id it's no problem, bmpx would list them separately

        • 2006-08-20 23232, 2006

      • dholmes
        It sure doesn't work in iTunes =D

        • 2006-08-20 23240, 2006

      • deadchip
        heh well it works on BMPx LOL

        • 2006-08-20 23259, 2006

      • dholmes
        Note that even MB fetches the wrong album art

        • 2006-08-20 23212, 2006

      • dholmes
        The art for the 1994 album in MB is the art on the actual 2001 album

        • 2006-08-20 23256, 2006

      • dholmes
        Oh, and if you don't support manual tagging, what about Genre tags?

        • 2006-08-20 23218, 2006

      • deadchip
        yeah those are untouched

        • 2006-08-20 23224, 2006

      • deadchip
        i don't know what to do with them

        • 2006-08-20 23216, 2006

      • dholmes
        And one last question; I'm sure you get this a lot

        • 2006-08-20 23240, 2006

      • dholmes
        With win32 ports of gtk and gstreamer, would you accept patches for a win32 build environment? =D

        • 2006-08-20 23201, 2006

      • deadchip
        yeah at ANY time

        • 2006-08-20 23202, 2006

      • dholmes
        (of course that would be after gstreamer on windows stops sucking; I tried it and can't get it to work)

        • 2006-08-20 23207, 2006

      • deadchip
        we already tried to build it on win32

        • 2006-08-20 23226, 2006

      • deadchip
        but we didn't pursue it further because of it being so problematic, and of course general app development has priority

        • 2006-08-20 23234, 2006

      • dholmes
        If I had a whole lot of spare time I'd give it a shot

        • 2006-08-20 23236, 2006

      • deadchip
        so if you could provide help there we'd take it at any time

        • 2006-08-20 23253, 2006

      • dholmes
        Unfortunately I'm crazy busy

        • 2006-08-20 23204, 2006

      • dholmes
        But I'm sure once GStreamer on Windows shapes up, somebody will do it

        • 2006-08-20 23246, 2006

      • Landus
        Oh my god.

        • 2006-08-20 23200, 2006

      • Landus
        Who made people in charge of this site?

        • 2006-08-20 23215, 2006

      • dholmes
        Which site? MB?

        • 2006-08-20 23220, 2006

      • Landus
        Yes.

        • 2006-08-20 23230, 2006

      • Landus
        My sister has more common sense and intelligence than someone of the people with the ability to vote on edits.

        • 2006-08-20 23245, 2006

      • deadchip
        erh

        • 2006-08-20 23247, 2006

      • dholmes
        That's life

        • 2006-08-20 23211, 2006

      • Landus
        This site is going to fall because of the half-assed styles on tracks.

        • 2006-08-20 23212, 2006

      • dholmes
        I once spent half an hour working on entering a really challenging album, and had it all lost when some newbie downvoted it for no reason

        • 2006-08-20 23228, 2006

      • dholmes
        Landus, example?

        • 2006-08-20 23243, 2006

      • dholmes
        I've found MB to be getting better and better since I started using it

        • 2006-08-20 23256, 2006

      • Landus
        The current debate I'm having is here.

        • 2006-08-20 23258, 2006

      • Landus
        http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=5423234

        • 2006-08-20 23201, 2006

      • Landus
        For the entire album.

        • 2006-08-20 23212, 2006

      • Landus
        It makes no sense to completely botch the track name.

        • 2006-08-20 23222, 2006

      • Landus
        By adding in in the album name into the track name.

        • 2006-08-20 23233, 2006

      • Landus
        It's pointless and ruins the track name.

        • 2006-08-20 23239, 2006

      • dholmes
        I hate to break it to you, but you'll probably be in the minority there

        • 2006-08-20 23243, 2006

      • Landus
        Regardless of what the style guys say.

        • 2006-08-20 23248, 2006

      • Landus
        Guides, rather.

        • 2006-08-20 23252, 2006

      • Landus
        I know.

        • 2006-08-20 23210, 2006

      • Landus
        That's why I'm ready to holler at the majority of the site.

        • 2006-08-20 23226, 2006

      • Landus
        It's being run by people that don't really know how to tag music correctly.

        • 2006-08-20 23221, 2006

      • dholmes
        You might want to take a look at how many edits keschte has :P

        • 2006-08-20 23234, 2006

      • Landus
        There is -no- reason to justify putting the album name in the track name of an entire album.

        • 2006-08-20 23247, 2006

      • dholmes
        It's kinda hard to tell somebody with 82,000 edits that he doesn't know how to tag music =D

        • 2006-08-20 23204, 2006

      • Landus
        No. He apparently doesn't.

        • 2006-08-20 23215, 2006

      • Landus
        He's one of the users that's quickly getting on my nerves.

        • 2006-08-20 23215, 2006

      • Landus
        Anyone that justfies tagging an entire album by putting the album name in the track name, regardless of what sort of CD it is, doesn't deserve to make descisions on tags.

        • 2006-08-20 23230, 2006

      • Landus
        I know what's different about this CD. I own it.

        • 2006-08-20 23226, 2006

      • dholmes
        I agree it does look a little weird on that particular album

        • 2006-08-20 23249, 2006

      • dholmes
        But MB has already broken my soul and now I submit to community consensus no matter what I think =D

        • 2006-08-20 23221, 2006

      • Landus
        Give it enough time and the wrong person with enough knowledge on wikipedia security issues and competely dismantles the site out of anger.

        • 2006-08-20 23231, 2006

      • Landus
        I've seen it happen before on other sites.

        • 2006-08-20 23241, 2006

      • dholmes
        Perhaps

        • 2006-08-20 23247, 2006

      • Landus
        It's rather sad.

        • 2006-08-20 23247, 2006

      • dholmes
        But that's what backups are for

        • 2006-08-20 23255, 2006

      • Landus
        Because this site has alot of potential.

        • 2006-08-20 23215, 2006

      • Landus
        Backups won't be up-to-date.

        • 2006-08-20 23233, 2006

      • dholmes
        They can be

        • 2006-08-20 23240, 2006

      • dholmes
        And in the case of a database, probably are

        • 2006-08-20 23250, 2006

      • Landus
        Probably weekly updates, and alot of edits can happen a day.

        • 2006-08-20 23208, 2006

      • dholmes
        I'm not an expert on databases but my understanding is that they're designed from the ground up to deal with such things

        • 2006-08-20 23247, 2006

      • Landus
        Neither am I. It's a matter of who's maintaining the database.

        • 2006-08-20 23238, 2006

      • Landus
        If it was me, it'd be a daily backup that would modify the existing backup to include the changes inthe last 24 hours.

        • 2006-08-20 23239, 2006

      • dholmes
        deadchip, I suppose that's another problem with your philosophy for BMPx: It doesn't really accomodate people who have qualms with the Musicbrainz Style Guidelines =D

        • 2006-08-20 23249, 2006

      • deadchip
        yeah

        • 2006-08-20 23250, 2006

      • deadchip
        well

        • 2006-08-20 23201, 2006

      • deadchip
        i just believe in one canonical source for metadata

        • 2006-08-20 23211, 2006

      • deadchip
        and if there is anything like it (style and so on issues aside) then it's MB

        • 2006-08-20 23218, 2006

      • dholmes
        Yeah

        • 2006-08-20 23218, 2006

      • Landus
        If I had the time and money, I'd open my own server using MB tags.

        • 2006-08-20 23225, 2006

      • dholmes
        An other source would have the same issue

        • 2006-08-20 23241, 2006

      • deadchip
        yeah true

        • 2006-08-20 23248, 2006

      • Landus
        So it wouldn't be open to people with no knowledge of how to properly tag music.

        • 2006-08-20 23200, 2006

      • dholmes
        One possible (but I guess a little far-fetched) solution would be to make MB robust enough that you can choose the style yourself

        • 2006-08-20 23251, 2006

      • dholmes
        All it would really take is acknowledgement that this album is to be tagged according to whatever style guideline, then you could do whatever string processing magic you like

        • 2006-08-20 23256, 2006

      • Landus
        Could go for that, but it's pointless.

        • 2006-08-20 23253, 2006

      • Landus
        The people that vote no on perfectly sensical changes are just people to cause waves, or those who have a small, or non-existant grasp on how to tag things correctly.

        • 2006-08-20 23218, 2006

      • Landus
        Think of someone was making filenames based on data from MB.

        • 2006-08-20 23228, 2006

      • dholmes
        I uh, hate to say it, but I think you might be considering your opinions to be facts here :P

        • 2006-08-20 23238, 2006

      • Landus
        I sometimes do.

        • 2006-08-20 23243, 2006

      • Landus
        Don't hate to say it.

        • 2006-08-20 23250, 2006

      • Landus
        I get that aggrivated where I do.

        • 2006-08-20 23258, 2006

      • Landus
        And I forget.

        • 2006-08-20 23219, 2006

      • Landus
        Anyway, if filenames were being made in an %artist% - %trackname% format would look botched beyond recognition if it was with the album I put a link to.

        • 2006-08-20 23207, 2006

      • dholmes
        Well, if you really feel strongly enough about it, you can write up a detailed argument and send it to the appropriate mailing list

        • 2006-08-20 23207, 2006

      • dholmes
        I have twice tried to get style changes pushed through, once regarding style for video game and anime OSTs (which did result in a consensus, but not the one I hoped for) and once for OCReMixStyle (which did result in the consensus I hoped for)

        • 2006-08-20 23209, 2006

      • deadchip
        what kind of style changes are you talking about btw?

        • 2006-08-20 23213, 2006

      • deadchip
        i'm not sure i get what you mean

        • 2006-08-20 23227, 2006

      • deadchip
        you mean stuff like track name casing etc?

        • 2006-08-20 23230, 2006

      • dholmes
        In this case Landus was talking about the application of ClassicalStyle/PartNumberStyle to a Dream Theater album

        • 2006-08-20 23257, 2006

      • dholmes
        http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=5423234

        • 2006-08-20 23226, 2006

      • dholmes
        I don't really have strong feelings either way. It does seem a little weird

        • 2006-08-20 23219, 2006

      • deadchip
        uh

        • 2006-08-20 23238, 2006

      • dholmes
        Actually, looking at the album cover, I kinda agree with the style guideline

        • 2006-08-20 23242, 2006

      • deadchip
        well i agree with this:

        • 2006-08-20 23249, 2006

      • deadchip
        Second, what you're referring to is a gapless CD. An annotation can be made, rather than botching the track name for each track.

        • 2006-08-20 23234, 2006

      • dholmes
        That's true

        • 2006-08-20 23207, 2006

      • dholmes
        But when you look at the way the back cover phrases it, it does make it clear that each section is a part of "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence"

        • 2006-08-20 23211, 2006

      • deadchip
        The ClassicalStyleGuide page can be agreed to or not

        • 2006-08-20 23212, 2006

      • deadchip
        hmmmm

        • 2006-08-20 23224, 2006

      • deadchip
        right well, after looking at it for a while more, it's not all so obvious anymore

        • 2006-08-20 23212, 2006

      • dholmes
        It is sort of a weird case, but since there does seem to be a community consensus, I don't think I'd personally argue with it

        • 2006-08-20 23241, 2006

      • dholmes
        Yo deadchip, if you want an example of the XML exports, http://acm.cs.umn.edu/~holme215/5star.xml

        • 2006-08-20 23258, 2006

      • dholmes
        That's from "Export Song List"; there's also "Export Library"

        • 2006-08-20 23203, 2006

      • dholmes
        They seem to look the same

        • 2006-08-20 23246, 2006

      • dholmes
        Note that "Rating" is an integer between 0 and 100; iTunes only lets you select an integer number of stars (0-5) but internally it stores them as 0,20, 40, 60, 80 or 100

        • 2006-08-20 23208, 2006

      • dholmes
        It seems to store its smart playlist criteria in some bizarre encoding, but other than that it's all pretty straightforward

        • 2006-08-20 23216, 2006

      • Aankhen`` joined the channel

        • 2006-08-20 23220, 2006

      • dholmes
        Oh, Landus

        • 2006-08-20 23222, 2006

      • dholmes
        http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=4059488

        • 2006-08-20 23237, 2006

      • dholmes
        That would be another solution: make it so that MB understands the grouping

        • 2006-08-20 23253, 2006

      • dholmes
        Then they could appear just as on the album cover

        • 2006-08-20 23234, 2006

      • Landus
        I just recommended that in an edit reply not even two minutes ago.

        • 2006-08-20 23239, 2006

      • Landus
        Or suggested it.

        • 2006-08-20 23244, 2006

      • dholmes
        Heh

        • 2006-08-20 23222, 2006

      • Landus
        Keep in mind that alot of my CD's have been stolen by people I've lent them to and they've never been returned.

        • 2006-08-20 23249, 2006

      • Landus
        I used a program called VBRfix and it completely obliterated the tags on the songs I ran through it.

        • 2006-08-20 23211, 2006

      • Landus
        So when I use Picard to set the tags right and the information I'm getting is incorrect.

        • 2006-08-20 23222, 2006

      • Landus
        And I get crap when I fix it, I become to get annoyed.

        • 2006-08-20 23256, 2006

      • dholmes
        This is a pretty challenging thing to come up with a DB schema for

        • 2006-08-20 23229, 2006

      • dholmes
        It probably is the right solution though

        • 2006-08-20 23245, 2006

      • Landus
        I could think of a way to do it, but I doubt I'd be able to suggest how to code it.

        • 2006-08-20 23204, 2006

      • dholmes
        It would be cool if MB understood tracks split into parts when they're technically one track on the album, too, like Green Day's "Jesus of Suburbia", etc

        • 2006-08-20 23218, 2006

      • dholmes
        It would basically be like allowing a track to have sub-tracks

        • 2006-08-20 23232, 2006

      • Landus
        Oh, that track pisses me off.

        • 2006-08-20 23238, 2006

      • dholmes
        And making MB agnostic to whether or not a "track" corresponds to a file

        • 2006-08-20 23240, 2006

      • Landus
        The way that one works.