it'd be better to add appropriate AR links for the time being
2005-11-17 32135, 2005
rodbegbie
HMA: There are about 3000 people who edited/voted on MB data last week. How do you guage concensus over 3000 people?
2005-11-17 32141, 2005
rodbegbie
It's hard enough when you have three people.
2005-11-17 32142, 2005
ojnkpjg
i think it's almost analagous to removal of additionaltrackinformation and etc
2005-11-17 32155, 2005
ojnkpjg
it's just not time yet
2005-11-17 32159, 2005
HairMetalAddict
I'm all for an alternative to "feat.", but until one is actually made available in MB (and not this "we'll make two groups mix as one group" crap), it's the best thing for the moment.
2005-11-17 32108, 2005
ojnkpjg
right, i agree
2005-11-17 32116, 2005
ojnkpjg
well, that's what i said, so i'm being redundant
2005-11-17 32117, 2005
ojnkpjg
but, yeah
2005-11-17 32130, 2005
rodbegbie
HMA: This is a better stepping stone to *getting* to that solution.
2005-11-17 32154, 2005
HairMetalAddict
No, kid. You explain how something became "implemented" without even a consensus from the few people who actually have the time to dive through that mess known as mb-style list?
2005-11-17 32156, 2005
inhouseuk
adding AR's makes it easy to convert to a better DB schema in the future
2005-11-17 32115, 2005
fuchs
rodbegbie: it's not it's doing the second before the first step, and as you can see, you stumble if you try to walk like this
2005-11-17 32132, 2005
rodbegbie
inhouseuk: Right. And the new combined artists have ARs attached. Which can be used down the road.
2005-11-17 32108, 2005
rodbegbie
HMA: There is no process now. It's broken. There is no agreed way to make decisions with MB.
2005-11-17 32117, 2005
rodbegbie
And all the modwars in the world won't fix that.
2005-11-17 32126, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Then how was a decision made? Like I said, there is no decision made.
2005-11-17 32146, 2005
rodbegbie
HMA: A Style Council member edited the wiki. And that was it.
2005-11-17 32155, 2005
rodbegbie
HMA: That is, currently, all it takes to change the style guide.
2005-11-17 32158, 2005
ojnkpjg
who (for the lazy)?
2005-11-17 32102, 2005
inhouseuk
rodbegbie: I mean't add AR's but leave the tracks as they are !
Well, that explains a lot. Wasn't someone just calling for his removal of automod earlier...
2005-11-17 32149, 2005
inhouseuk
rodbegbie: don't move them to silly combined bogus artists
2005-11-17 32138, 2005
HairMetalAddict
inhouseuk, don't just say it, no-vote it. He's got a motherload of this crap being voted on at the moment...
2005-11-17 32154, 2005
rodbegbie
inhouseuk: The problem is that the current ARs don't capture all the information.
2005-11-17 32113, 2005
rodbegbie
The just say "Person B performed Track X"
2005-11-17 32114, 2005
ojnkpjg
i think the issue ought to be sorted out by active developers
2005-11-17 32116, 2005
ojnkpjg
and not users
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
ojnkpjg
HMA said it before, but just to repeat, it is not a style issue
2005-11-17 32154, 2005
rodbegbie
ojnkpjg: Agreed. And if you lok at the list of people who voted, there are developers there who voted for the change.
2005-11-17 32107, 2005
rodbegbie
G0llum, for example, who is the person doing most of the work on teh Artist page redo.
2005-11-17 32120, 2005
fuchs
rodbegbie: yeah, he edited one page, the "OfficialStyleGuideline" page still has the old version, the guideline page on the site tells me to use the old version, and even the changed page doesn't have the status "OfficialStyleGuidline"
2005-11-17 32125, 2005
rodbegbie
ojnkpjg: Also should be voting: The aying customers of MB.
2005-11-17 32135, 2005
ojnkpjg
that's true
2005-11-17 32138, 2005
rodbegbie
*paying
2005-11-17 32143, 2005
ojnkpjg
someone mentioned that earlier
2005-11-17 32148, 2005
ojnkpjg
(on irc)
2005-11-17 32121, 2005
Knio-school
Knio-school is now known as Knio
2005-11-17 32136, 2005
ojnkpjg
maybe a 300th mailing list is needed for things like this
and then cross-post everything between all of them :)
2005-11-17 32139, 2005
ojnkpjg
oh, well.
2005-11-17 32101, 2005
ojnkpjg
i think we all want the same thing, really
2005-11-17 32115, 2005
ojnkpjg
so maybe it's best to rethink things somewhere where more people are involved
2005-11-17 32122, 2005
rodbegbie
yeah. i think that's the biggest pain to me here.
2005-11-17 32131, 2005
ojnkpjg
it's hard to get everyone's attention at once
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
rodbegbie
I was attempting to push this through, because it seemed that *most* people were for it.
2005-11-17 32150, 2005
yllona
quick off topic question, luks you there?
2005-11-17 32150, 2005
rodbegbie
I was annoyed that a couple of nay-sayers kept the discussion spiralling round.
2005-11-17 32100, 2005
luks
yllona: yes
2005-11-17 32103, 2005
ojnkpjg
yeah, and there was a mailing list flood
2005-11-17 32105, 2005
MrQwerty has quit
2005-11-17 32109, 2005
MrQwerty joined the channel
2005-11-17 32113, 2005
ojnkpjg
which turned people (me, at least) off
2005-11-17 32120, 2005
rodbegbie
Yeah, it's a hard balance.
2005-11-17 32124, 2005
ojnkpjg
yes
2005-11-17 32140, 2005
rodbegbie
Somewhere between "We need people to consider this", but not "we need people to drown in boring details"
2005-11-17 32116, 2005
yllona
for musicals, should i make the title [year, original broadway cast/world premiere recording] or is that only necessary for revivals?
2005-11-17 32116, 2005
ojnkpjg
maybe write-up competing proposals in the wiki then post something on one of th emany mailing lists and irc asking people for feedback?
2005-11-17 32118, 2005
rodbegbie
"We need people to be well informed", but not "We need everyone to understand the intricicies of PostgreSql" :)
2005-11-17 32128, 2005
rodbegbie
ojnkpjg -- that's what I was trying to do.
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
rodbegbie
THat's where that wiki page came from.
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
ojnkpjg
ok
2005-11-17 32155, 2005
ojnkpjg
you lost me when you started asking for +1 and -1, though
2005-11-17 32129, 2005
rodbegbie
Hence my feelings that HMA can go suck a tailpipe :)
2005-11-17 32104, 2005
rodbegbie
ojnkpjg -- that was just an attempt to see if I could introduce process where there was none.
2005-11-17 32114, 2005
rodbegbie
Kind-of sort-of worked in that the vote turned out in my favour :)
2005-11-17 32118, 2005
MrQwerty` has quit
2005-11-17 32129, 2005
rodbegbie
But I think that was mostly because the people who actually cared were willing to go through the debate
2005-11-17 32133, 2005
ojnkpjg
it's just a very silly and bad way of deciding something so important
2005-11-17 32144, 2005
rodbegbie
It works for the Apache group.
2005-11-17 32102, 2005
rodbegbie
I've seen it used on a number of mailing lists, and if everyone's bought-in it works well.
2005-11-17 32123, 2005
ojnkpjg
i'd rather see people sign off on the wiki proposal page, or something
2005-11-17 32144, 2005
rodbegbie
MB needs a decent bug/issue tracking system.
2005-11-17 32145, 2005
rodbegbie
Anyways.
2005-11-17 32151, 2005
rodbegbie
I need to get on with some work now.
2005-11-17 32154, 2005
rodbegbie
Laters
2005-11-17 32155, 2005
ojnkpjg
yes, this mess made that much clear
2005-11-17 32159, 2005
ojnkpjg
bye
2005-11-17 32116, 2005
luks
yllona: sorry, i really don't know a much about musicals.
2005-11-17 32119, 2005
luks
but i'd say yes, add it to the title
2005-11-17 32131, 2005
yllona
okay, that's my prefrence, and I add the year to the title of all my movie and musical soundtracks, esp important because of all the revival/re-makes
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
HairMetalAddict no-bombs a certain editor...
2005-11-17 32156, 2005
yllona
but i wanted to make sure of the MB guidelines
2005-11-17 32153, 2005
nikki_ grumbles
2005-11-17 32103, 2005
nikki_
I hate TVs without subtitles
2005-11-17 32120, 2005
HairMetalAddict
3 no-bombers so far vs. Trongersoll and some nobody's yes-bombs
2005-11-17 32105, 2005
inhouseuk
HairMetalAddict: see my comment on http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=3718693, using AR is the way to represent multiple artists on tracks. This solves the .feat problem and most of the coding has been done already. AR just needs to be searchable and used by the tagger libraries. We already have a 1:n solution, it just isn't used properly yet :)
2005-11-17 32150, 2005
inhouseuk
it just needs more integrating
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
GURT
some nobody
2005-11-17 32107, 2005
chocomo has left the channel
2005-11-17 32150, 2005
HairMetalAddict
mmm, if AR could be used in tagger libs and search and such, it would be a good alternative to "feat."
2005-11-17 32119, 2005
HairMetalAddict
But we're not there yet. And this whole mixing artists situation isn't going to help it.
2005-11-17 32132, 2005
HairMetalAddict says half an hour later...
2005-11-17 32155, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Had to leave the comp a bit. My gf needed some... er, attention.
2005-11-17 32104, 2005
nikki__ snickers
2005-11-17 32106, 2005
rodbegbie
HMA: Puncture?
2005-11-17 32108, 2005
rodbegbie has quit
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Dude's got the IQ of a milk bone...
2005-11-17 32115, 2005
chocomo joined the channel
2005-11-17 32113, 2005
inhouseuk
HairMetalAddict: and it only took half and hour? I normally have to dedicate a whole evening to my wife :)
2005-11-17 32119, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Hehe, 45 minutes since my last post. Half an hour responding after yours. ;-)
2005-11-17 32140, 2005
HairMetalAddict
And the night is still young... :-P
2005-11-17 32119, 2005
HairMetalAddict reminds everyone that the number one cause of divorce is: marriage
2005-11-17 32135, 2005
inhouseuk
yeah... only because you can't get divorced if you're not married
