another off-topic quick question: is it okay to use all music guide (allmusic.com) links? if so should they converted to tinyurl's?
2005-11-17 32121, 2005
HairMetalAddict
"not everybody who took part in the list discussion agreed with the proposal. In fact it was far from becoming a consensus there."
2005-11-17 32132, 2005
RodBegbie
HMA: who are you quoting?
2005-11-17 32140, 2005
HairMetalAddict
fuchs.
2005-11-17 32145, 2005
_mo
yllona: no, not really
2005-11-17 32151, 2005
RodBegbie
OK.
2005-11-17 32152, 2005
yllona
oaky, thx
2005-11-17 32156, 2005
_mo
np
2005-11-17 32107, 2005
_mo
i wish the topic would change to that in fact
2005-11-17 32108, 2005
_mo
^^
2005-11-17 32115, 2005
HairMetalAddict
I used to live in Florida. I wanna see a recount!
2005-11-17 32121, 2005
inhouseuk
:)
2005-11-17 32121, 2005
_mo
ja!
2005-11-17 32133, 2005
RodBegbie
The following style council members were in favour: DylanSteinberg, G0llum, mcymd, DJKC, TarragonAllen, Zout and Gecks.
2005-11-17 32104, 2005
_mo
and I know 3 of them
2005-11-17 32114, 2005
RodBegbie
_mo: So?
2005-11-17 32117, 2005
_mo
pretty one sided if you ask me
2005-11-17 32123, 2005
RodBegbie
When did youy become the center of the universe?
2005-11-17 32128, 2005
_mo
o_O
2005-11-17 32143, 2005
HairMetalAddict
1) That's not a count. 2) How many total people actually knew this DRASTIC CHANGE TO MB was even being discussed, much less "changed"?
2005-11-17 32100, 2005
_mo
no I mean.. only some people who wanted this in the firsplace voted
2005-11-17 32103, 2005
_mo
b) see hma
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
RodBegbie
The people who care enough about style issues to: a) subscribe to the style mailing list, and b) read it.
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
_mo idly notes the cons are more than the pros
2005-11-17 32156, 2005
RodBegbie
Mo: You've even admitted that you didn't read it. People tried to convince you to, and you just refused.
2005-11-17 32118, 2005
_mo
and maybe peoep lwho still DO care and still DO wanna participate have ALOT of other stuff to spend their time on. and not read blablabla on mailinglists
2005-11-17 32133, 2005
PRAEst76
It just looked like a flamewar kicking off to me.
2005-11-17 32138, 2005
_mo
I refuse because its just to much stuff
2005-11-17 32143, 2005
_mo
yes
2005-11-17 32146, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Then c) didn't get run off by long-winded threads on "this kinda trumpet ain't an AR" threads. Most of us would rather waste time actually getting something done than wade through non-sensical shit like that.
2005-11-17 32111, 2005
_mo
and ru came i nhere and griped about it. in no way was I gonna read soem strange flamewar in the middle of numerous others waitign t obe read
2005-11-17 32112, 2005
RodBegbie
OK, but you can't complain "wah wah, i want it changed back" when a) You *DID* know, and b) You couldn't be arsed.
2005-11-17 32113, 2005
HairMetalAddict
And you've got the nerve to say a DRASTIC CHANGE TO MB mixed in with all that crap where noone would actually notice it has ANY VALUE WHATSOEVER?
2005-11-17 32122, 2005
HairMetalAddict
You are one fucked up little boy.
2005-11-17 32128, 2005
RodBegbie
And you're a tedious little girl.
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
HairMetalAddict
It never changed.
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
inhouseuk
rodbegbie: Okay, a question. Say a track is moved to one of these silly collaboration artist, for example Fred and Barnie. What if there are several artists called Barnie, how can you tell which one performed on the track?
2005-11-17 32145, 2005
RodBegbie
Using AR.
2005-11-17 32149, 2005
RodBegbie
Easy peasy.
2005-11-17 32157, 2005
inhouseuk
which AR?
2005-11-17 32100, 2005
RodBegbie
How do you tell now when it's in a test field.
2005-11-17 32103, 2005
PRAEst76
Well basically as I said earlier today it's easy to get things like this done if you have the stamina to create enough noise on a mailing list so people give up reading and then claim they don't care enough.
2005-11-17 32112, 2005
RodBegbie
"Fred & Barnie is a collaboration between Fred and Barnie"
2005-11-17 32126, 2005
HairMetalAddict
And I will *abuse* my automod power as needed to revert any mods made under this nonsense. Somehow I think you'll be the only one here whining about it.
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
inhouseuk
but that doesn't give the link Barnie performed X track
2005-11-17 32148, 2005
_mo
you're forgettign zout. he's gonna mailbomb me soon
2005-11-17 32149, 2005
RodBegbie
It does if Track X is performed by "Fred & Barnie"
2005-11-17 32130, 2005
HairMetalAddict
I just earlier reverted a load of his mods. Definitely he's not forgotten. But he's not in here, thus no mention. ;-)
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
RodBegbie
Just now, if someone adds a track "FOo (feat. Barnie)" by "Fred", you can't tell if Barnie performed on it.
2005-11-17 32139, 2005
_mo
heh
2005-11-17 32154, 2005
_mo
if you add a ar so
2005-11-17 32156, 2005
_mo
an AR
2005-11-17 32109, 2005
RodBegbie
Right. So either way it's the same.
2005-11-17 32110, 2005
inhouseuk
no it doesn't! it tells me the artist with the ID of Fred and Barnie performed the track. It doen't tell me which Barnie
2005-11-17 32136, 2005
RodBegbie
And if you know that the Artist "Fred & Barnie" had collaborators "Fred" and "Barnie", it *does*
2005-11-17 32157, 2005
inhouseuk
that required two lookups instead of one
2005-11-17 32159, 2005
RodBegbie
In the same way that if Paul McCartney is a member of the Beatles, I know he performed on "Help!"
2005-11-17 32115, 2005
RodBegbie
inhouseuk: For the moment. The UI and DB schema are up for discussion.
2005-11-17 32130, 2005
RodBegbie
But the fact that we now have those ARs is an improvement.
2005-11-17 32131, 2005
_mo
look all this will be solved with the schema change. but the database has had feat for such a tiem now. its just silly to start chaneing it back from having it liek it is for 3 years so
2005-11-17 32144, 2005
RodBegbie
_mo: But said schema change won
2005-11-17 32151, 2005
RodBegbie
't happen for at least a year.
2005-11-17 32152, 2005
_mo
and we wil lhave to change it back *again* for when the scema change comes
2005-11-17 32108, 2005
_mo
s?
2005-11-17 32108, 2005
RodBegbie
And an automatic script will have more chance in the future if we make these changes now.
2005-11-17 32115, 2005
_mo
not really..
2005-11-17 32120, 2005
RodBegbie
Yes it will.
2005-11-17 32123, 2005
_mo
it depends really on how its done
2005-11-17 32133, 2005
_mo
this is jus redugnancy
2005-11-17 32142, 2005
_mo
i'd agree with it if it was the style fro mthe get go
2005-11-17 32144, 2005
RodBegbie
_mo: What, precisely, is your objection.
2005-11-17 32153, 2005
RodBegbie
Are you concerned about extra rows in a database table?
2005-11-17 32154, 2005
_mo
redugancy
2005-11-17 32109, 2005
_mo
artists Queen, Queen & david bowie, Queen + Vanguard
2005-11-17 32114, 2005
_mo
instead of just Queen
2005-11-17 32117, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Actual, Ruoak has specifically mentioned auto-scripts reading the (feat.) information when the time came for a change. Don't give us that shit. You wanna override the head dev's words?
2005-11-17 32124, 2005
_mo
and *most* of these are just VA tracks
2005-11-17 32128, 2005
RodBegbie
But they all reflect information.
2005-11-17 32141, 2005
RodBegbie
By dumbing everything down to the lowest level, you *lose* information.
2005-11-17 32149, 2005
_mo
then change *thaT*
2005-11-17 32156, 2005
_mo
instead of the feat thing
2005-11-17 32159, 2005
RodBegbie
That is the plan.
2005-11-17 32104, 2005
_mo
alow more words to be used i nthe joining prhaze
2005-11-17 32105, 2005
RodBegbie
But until that happens, make this change.
2005-11-17 32110, 2005
_mo
no
2005-11-17 32113, 2005
inhouseuk
no
2005-11-17 32120, 2005
HairMetalAddict
Until that happens, Change nothing.
2005-11-17 32126, 2005
RodBegbie
and keep losing information?
2005-11-17 32128, 2005
_mo
use something (feat vocal David bowie) (soemthing (+ Vanguard))
2005-11-17 32129, 2005
RodBegbie
for another year or so?
2005-11-17 32129, 2005
_mo
etc
2005-11-17 32139, 2005
Shepard thinks he should jump over to #musicbrainz-smalltalk or something o_O
2005-11-17 32139, 2005
_mo
yes exactly
2005-11-17 32145, 2005
_mo
its been that way already for 3
2005-11-17 32146, 2005
RodBegbie
Mo -- *THAT*'s a change.
2005-11-17 32150, 2005
_mo
lol shep
2005-11-17 32151, 2005
inhouseuk
rodbegbie: how are we losing information by keeping the .feat?
2005-11-17 32106, 2005
RodBegbie
Feat means five different things now
2005-11-17 32110, 2005
_mo
yes
2005-11-17 32111, 2005
RodBegbie
See wiki page.
2005-11-17 32117, 2005
_mo
but the *damage* has already been done
2005-11-17 32124, 2005
slaad
You're writing a smalltalk library / client, Shepard? :P
2005-11-17 32126, 2005
RodBegbie
So let's keep doing more damage?!
2005-11-17 32137, 2005
RodBegbie
Why not stop doing damage now?
2005-11-17 32139, 2005
_mo
instead spend tiem perfectign the AR links to correct the overdumbifyed feat info
2005-11-17 32151, 2005
RodBegbie
Because 99% of moderators won't do that.
2005-11-17 32152, 2005
ojnkpjg
it's just a different kind of damage
2005-11-17 32158, 2005
Shepard
slaad: no the java lib was enough for me ;)
2005-11-17 32159, 2005
ojnkpjg
which is more damaging
2005-11-17 32103, 2005
HairMetalAddict
We are preventing damage by not making you an auto-mod...
2005-11-17 32104, 2005
RodBegbie
ojnkpjg: Why more?
2005-11-17 32111, 2005
_mo
99% of the moderators still ad releases with no date
2005-11-17 32112, 2005
ojnkpjg
because it makes information hard to find
2005-11-17 32135, 2005
_mo
and creates more artists
2005-11-17 32139, 2005
_mo
more mb ids
2005-11-17 32143, 2005
_mo
redundancy
2005-11-17 32151, 2005
RodBegbie
ojnkpjg: What information?
2005-11-17 32103, 2005
_mo
with X & Y, Y & X, x and y. YANGXOMG
2005-11-17 32109, 2005
ojnkpjg
the fact that artist x performed track y
2005-11-17 32118, 2005
ojnkpjg
if y is attributed to x & z
2005-11-17 32118, 2005
inhouseuk
exactly
2005-11-17 32129, 2005
RodBegbie
_mo: discs are *CHEAP*. I'll personally pay the $0.00000000003 that we need for discs with the extra data.
2005-11-17 32130, 2005
ojnkpjg
it's captured by AR, but AR is not integrated yet
2005-11-17 32134, 2005
RodBegbie
_mo: Merge them
2005-11-17 32136, 2005
ojnkpjg
wait until then
2005-11-17 32142, 2005
_mo
oh. but wich one?
2005-11-17 32148, 2005
RodBegbie
same as "David Bowie", "DavidBowie", "Daviid Bowie"
2005-11-17 32152, 2005
_mo
and they're exually as walid because the DISCS say so
