tagging is what brings most users to the community
2005-12-06 34041, 2005
nikki`
I don't see them coming along and complaining that our data isn't all ascii.
2005-12-06 34049, 2005
nikki`
and paying customers feed ruaok.
2005-12-06 34058, 2005
wolfsong
nikki and what do those customers do with the data?
2005-12-06 34011, 2005
nikki`
no idea, I have no idea who they are.
2005-12-06 34016, 2005
wolfsong
Last.FM for instance is still tracking tag information
2005-12-06 34045, 2005
wolfsong
and probably the biggest "corp" user
2005-12-06 34053, 2005
Russss
I know what some of the paying customers do, but if I told you I'd have to kill you.
2005-12-06 34028, 2005
wolfsong
further there are far more community members here to be concerned about
2005-12-06 34051, 2005
wolfsong
corporate customers or not, the community supports the data not them
2005-12-06 34030, 2005
PRAEst76
I think the ultimate solution is to have alternate data in different languages and a tagger that can use it. But that's a long way off.
2005-12-06 34039, 2005
wolfsong
i agree
2005-12-06 34051, 2005
ruaok
its in the next schema.
2005-12-06 34002, 2005
ruaok
so that means its on the agenda
2005-12-06 34015, 2005
PRAEst76
thing is this is a discussion we are having. A reasoned and sensible discussion. Something the moderator in question has shunned in favour of acting like a brat.
2005-12-06 34020, 2005
Russss has quit
2005-12-06 34023, 2005
marbahlarbs joined the channel
2005-12-06 34035, 2005
marbahlarbs
the man himself appears
2005-12-06 34038, 2005
wolfsong
ruaok: do plan on having an MBID only option in Picard?
2005-12-06 34041, 2005
marbahlarbs
hah
2005-12-06 34051, 2005
marbahlarbs
I got tired of posting comments
2005-12-06 34016, 2005
marbahlarbs
would someone please tell me how to make this work?
2005-12-06 34018, 2005
Russss joined the channel
2005-12-06 34020, 2005
nikki`
wolfsong: I hope so
2005-12-06 34030, 2005
marbahlarbs
the next person who comes along is going to have the same problem
2005-12-06 34031, 2005
ruaok
MBID only option?
2005-12-06 34036, 2005
PRAEst76
marbahlar: How to make what work exactly?
2005-12-06 34036, 2005
wolfsong
also do we track MBTagger vs. Picard usage in some way? probably a good compass for the SG and developers on issues like internationalization
2005-12-06 34052, 2005
marbahlarbs
add a second tag for latin charset, something
2005-12-06 34054, 2005
wolfsong
yes instead of changing all tags, just add the MBID
2005-12-06 34014, 2005
ruaok
wolfsong: only in number of downloads
2005-12-06 34027, 2005
ruaok
mb tagger far outstrips picard in downloads
2005-12-06 34030, 2005
marbahlarbs
add option in picard to use sort name when unicode
2005-12-06 34048, 2005
teleGUISE
eek... the MBID's are tele's plague... cuz I seem to be the only one with 2 and 3+ on some files
2005-12-06 34055, 2005
wolfsong
i only got involved w/ because of AS and as long as I could read my tags i was happy
2005-12-06 34056, 2005
PRAEst76
Is picard not close to ready for replacing MBtagger?
2005-12-06 34010, 2005
nikki`
PRAEst76: depends
2005-12-06 34012, 2005
ruaok
wolfsong: we'll have what Shepard coined as 'TaggerScript'
2005-12-06 34017, 2005
marbahlarbs
"it's perfect the way it is" just doesn't work. If it did, I wouldn't have had any problems.
2005-12-06 34038, 2005
ruaok
a more flexible languages for expressing tags and contents of id3 tags
2005-12-06 34049, 2005
marbahlarbs
you're foolish to assume that everyone using MB software has all charsets installed.
2005-12-06 34050, 2005
ruaok
the ultimate in tag control, if you will.
2005-12-06 34008, 2005
ruaok
PRAEst76: picard is getting there.
2005-12-06 34025, 2005
ruaok
I think 0.6.0 will finally nail mb taqgger 0.10.1
2005-12-06 34030, 2005
ruaok
er 0.10.5
2005-12-06 34032, 2005
Russss
FWIW I want last.fm to put forward a bounty for tag translation support.
2005-12-06 34034, 2005
wolfsong
it looks like we track TRM subs right?
2005-12-06 34037, 2005
nikki`
ruaok: last.fm users seem to like the idea of just adding mbids, then last.fm gets the mbid but the user is in full control of the contents of the tags.
2005-12-06 34043, 2005
Russss
like we have on last.fm at the moment
2005-12-06 34003, 2005
ruaok
wolfsong: yes
2005-12-06 34019, 2005
ruaok
nikki_: ah, I see,.
2005-12-06 34048, 2005
ruaok
sure. that could be a one of the overall settings in lieu of modding anything else
2005-12-06 34000, 2005
Russss
nikki`: I have mixed feelings about that. It makes me wonder whether people will end up tagging things with the wrong MBID.
2005-12-06 34014, 2005
nikki`
at least from what I saw back when it was stuill as.com
2005-12-06 34015, 2005
nikki`
why do I have such tlastdddddddddddd
2005-12-06 34022, 2005
ruaok
Russss: valid point there
2005-12-06 34024, 2005
Russss
at least if they're saving the rest of the metadata at the same time, they know it's wrong.
2005-12-06 34027, 2005
nikki`
fnio
2005-12-06 34035, 2005
nikki`
why the fuck have I got such lag?
2005-12-06 34046, 2005
PRAEst76
nikki`: Forgotten leeching?
2005-12-06 34051, 2005
nikki`
nope
2005-12-06 34020, 2005
PRAEst76
I found I'd been seeding a torrent for weeks. Forgot about it in a screen session
2005-12-06 34034, 2005
nikki`
I was on dial up until last week
2005-12-06 34002, 2005
PRAEst76
Yes, you should be seeing things all nippy still.
2005-12-06 34032, 2005
PRAEst76
log out and in again?
2005-12-06 34053, 2005
nikki`
nooo.
2005-12-06 34024, 2005
nikki`
marbahlarbs: if you read my image correctly, you'd see that I typed: mkdir \?
2005-12-06 34041, 2005
nikki`
and: touch \?
2005-12-06 34051, 2005
marbahlarbs
oh my god you're right!
2005-12-06 34015, 2005
marbahlarbs
oh wait, that still doesn't fix the problem
2005-12-06 34010, 2005
nikki`
maybe freebsd doesn't let you then
2005-12-06 34027, 2005
Russss
anyway. They're not question marks
2005-12-06 34032, 2005
marbahlarbs
no
2005-12-06 34036, 2005
Russss
they're unicode chars which appear as question marks
2005-12-06 34046, 2005
marbahlarbs
they are interpreted as question marks
2005-12-06 34055, 2005
marbahlarbs
so the real problem is picard and tagger software
2005-12-06 34002, 2005
marbahlarbs
but I can't change them
2005-12-06 34005, 2005
rowaasr13
wolfsong, should I pull my old MK-52 programmable calculator and start renaming artists to fit in 0-9a-F (maybe with - and . as well) range just because it doesn't support anything? You see, data would be unavailable to me!
2005-12-06 34017, 2005
marbahlarbs
the database can be changed
2005-12-06 34023, 2005
wolfsong has quit
2005-12-06 34036, 2005
nikki`
I can tag all these japanese artists fine...
2005-12-06 34044, 2005
nikki`
I've done so in linux, osx and windows.
2005-12-06 34059, 2005
marbahlarbs
congratulations. Tell that to all the people who can't.
2005-12-06 34059, 2005
Schika
on wich windows? XP?
2005-12-06 34005, 2005
nikki`
ues
2005-12-06 34008, 2005
nikki`
yes, even.
2005-12-06 34014, 2005
wolfsong joined the channel
2005-12-06 34019, 2005
nikki`
of course, it wasn't picard on osx, but it still worked with japanese.
2005-12-06 34040, 2005
wolfsong
rowaasr13: what does that have to do with MBTagger?
2005-12-06 34026, 2005
Russss
I have my music on a FAT32 partition so I can share them between Win and Linux, so no unicode filenames for Russ...
2005-12-06 34027, 2005
MBChatLogger
I hate the evil empire
2005-12-06 34027, 2005
Schika
I had some little success with Win2000 and unicode - but not everything. I guess Microsoft is using a mixed up codebase - but not sure
2005-12-06 34028, 2005
marbahlarbs
you could make the website only available when using IPv6
2005-12-06 34031, 2005
rowaasr13
Oh, never mind, I'll write version of tagger for it. And pluggable RAM modules will hold one MP3 just to prevent next question.
2005-12-06 34008, 2005
marbahlarbs
keep with the mindset
2005-12-06 34014, 2005
luks
Russss: i have no problem with unicode filenames on fat32
2005-12-06 34019, 2005
Russss
marbahlarbs: the problem is that there are two types of people who use MB. The people who want it to be correct, and the people who want to be able to tag.
2005-12-06 34020, 2005
marbahlarbs
"it's your own fault for using a broken old IP scheme"
2005-12-06 34023, 2005
Russss
luks: on which OS?
2005-12-06 34026, 2005
nikki`
I have a full day and four periods of maths tomorrow, so I really should be sleeping... plus I still have stupid lag.
2005-12-06 34027, 2005
luks
winxp
2005-12-06 34034, 2005
Russss
interesting
2005-12-06 34051, 2005
marbahlarbs
I want to be able to tag. That's why I downloaded the software. It's called Tagger.
2005-12-06 34002, 2005
marbahlarbs
notice the tag part.
2005-12-06 34007, 2005
Schika
then have a good night nikki
2005-12-06 34007, 2005
Russss
luks: hmm. Interesting. Now you come to mention it, nor do I.
2005-12-06 34013, 2005
Russss
luks: so it must be Picard's fault.
2005-12-06 34017, 2005
wolfsong
night nikki
2005-12-06 34038, 2005
luks
hm
2005-12-06 34056, 2005
wolfsong
Russss: which IDv are you using?
2005-12-06 34001, 2005
Jetpack joined the channel
2005-12-06 34009, 2005
rowaasr13
marbahlarbs, unicode file names work on any NT based (XP, 2003) system AND on FAT32 on 98. When it is you who have problem why you insist that people who don't have problem are wrong?
2005-12-06 34021, 2005
Russss
wolfsong: tags are written fine. Filename isn't
2005-12-06 34038, 2005
wolfsong
ic
2005-12-06 34010, 2005
marbahlarbs
because I'm not the only person with the problem
2005-12-06 34016, 2005
marbahlarbs
I'm just the only one here
2005-12-06 34016, 2005
wolfsong
but there are different code options depending on ID3v and if you're renaming...
2005-12-06 34039, 2005
wolfsong
marbahlarbs: you are clearly not alone
2005-12-06 34048, 2005
marbahlarbs
thank you wolfsong.
2005-12-06 34012, 2005
rowaasr13
Yes, but you problem is NOT DATA. You trying to fix wrong problem.
2005-12-06 34023, 2005
wolfsong
ruaok just mentioned that MBTagger downloads far outpace Picard an that's only part of the equation here
2005-12-06 34030, 2005
marbahlarbs
correct. the problem is the software that accesses the data.
2005-12-06 34056, 2005
marbahlarbs
I'm not saying the database shouldn't be 100% correct. I am saying that it shouldn't break the software that uses it
2005-12-06 34002, 2005
wolfsong
and you're saying fix what that's in his/her control?
2005-12-06 34040, 2005
marbahlarbs
I'm just saying, make it work.
2005-12-06 34043, 2005
rowaasr13
That's new! I'll go write a new tagger that would support only one-track album and then return demanding all DB cleared of anything longer.
2005-12-06 34009, 2005
wolfsong
again mandates aren't productive
2005-12-06 34028, 2005
wolfsong
how can marbahlarbs make it work w/ what he's using?
2005-12-06 34055, 2005
marbahlarbs
rowaasr13: if you're writing that software and publishing that database and putting it all on one website, go ahead. If it's broken, people won't use it.
2005-12-06 34030, 2005
rowaasr13
I could care less. I'm a user BTW, and I don't see why your needs are more important than my.
2005-12-06 34040, 2005
marbahlarbs
I'm only being an asshole about this because musicbrainz is so cool and useful.
2005-12-06 34049, 2005
rowaasr13
Picard: 1) tag as correct japanese. 2) tag as latin sort name.
2005-12-06 34005, 2005
marbahlarbs
that would be great.
2005-12-06 34016, 2005
marbahlarbs
I'd love to see that option.
2005-12-06 34020, 2005
rowaasr13
Yes, and if we allow your edit it will stop being useful to me and lots of other people who use japanese.
2005-12-06 34036, 2005
rowaasr13
See above for instructions.
2005-12-06 34043, 2005
marbahlarbs
will it stop being useful to you?
2005-12-06 34046, 2005
rowaasr13
This was suggested to you THREE TIMES already.
2005-12-06 34059, 2005
marbahlarbs
you have no artists with latin charset names?
2005-12-06 34023, 2005
marbahlarbs
the songs are latin charset
2005-12-06 34031, 2005
rowaasr13
I do have artists with non-latin names. >95% of them. And songs too.
2005-12-06 34033, 2005
marbahlarbs
do you need to make those japanese too?
2005-12-06 34009, 2005
Shepard
ruaok: what is so funny about the term "TaggerScript"? :)
2005-12-06 34013, 2005
rowaasr13
And I would really hate to see those correct, official names changed to needs of some simpleton who is not smart enough to learn one more language. Or at lest its script.
2005-12-06 34021, 2005
marbahlarbs
simpleton?
2005-12-06 34038, 2005
marbahlarbs
you call everyone who doesn't speak japanese a simpleton
2005-12-06 34054, 2005
rowaasr13
Actually, you know my OWN language script is not latin, why I must see your stupid letters instead of my native ones?
2005-12-06 34018, 2005
marbahlarbs
aren't you're typing my stupid letters right now?
2005-12-06 34018, 2005
teleGUISE Wonders at what point does the silly channel realize the point beyond constructive comments?
2005-12-06 34049, 2005
rowaasr13
I can switch. But I fear you won't be able to follow.
