anyone here that's an expert on style? I need proof that only album subtitles are separated with colons... if that's correct
2004-08-08 22140, 2004
rcon|InChicago
rcon|InChicago is now known as rcon
2004-08-08 22158, 2004
tma
rcon: I'm the "Style Dude", is that close enough? :)
2004-08-08 22138, 2004
rcon
lol yea
2004-08-08 22145, 2004
rcon
so you're tarragon eh?
2004-08-08 22153, 2004
tma
yep, that's me
2004-08-08 22102, 2004
tma
how can I help?
2004-08-08 22116, 2004
rcon
cool... well I have a question that I know you can answer then. I'm pretty sure what I've done is correct, but I can't find any proof in the style guide that says one way or the other, so if you don't mind taking a look at a mod in contest... http://www.musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=131…
2004-08-08 22136, 2004
tma
looking at ..
2004-08-08 22113, 2004
rcon
oh sorry
2004-08-08 22124, 2004
tma
hmm
2004-08-08 22126, 2004
rcon
uh, the subtitle syntax, whether it's correct for track or album
2004-08-08 22142, 2004
tma
huh? oh, sorry, I meant "I'm looking at it now"
2004-08-08 22149, 2004
rcon
oh
2004-08-08 22158, 2004
tma
:)
2004-08-08 22122, 2004
rcon
I thought you meant what am I looking for. oh well
2004-08-08 22139, 2004
tma
I don't think there's anything in the style guide to specifically make the "sub-title" rule only apply to album titles
however, the use of parenthesis to seperate a sub-title is also in common use
2004-08-08 22137, 2004
tma
mainly in track titles though
2004-08-08 22114, 2004
tma
one query about your mod : you've removed the "2" from the original title, are you sure that's corrent?
2004-08-08 22118, 2004
tma
correct
2004-08-08 22149, 2004
rcon
right. I've been told by several other mods who have more experience than myself (mo, HairMetalAddict etc.) that colons only apply to album titles, and, for the most part, the parentheses only apply to track titles
2004-08-08 22116, 2004
rcon
yea, tiamats site has no digit
2004-08-08 22139, 2004
tma
hum .. I don't suppose you have the original CD handy?
2004-08-08 22155, 2004
rcon
no... =\
2004-08-08 22109, 2004
Skunky
(:
2004-08-08 22121, 2004
rcon
probably shouldn't do a ton of mods on stuff I don't own, but I'd be done 5500 mods ago otherwise
2004-08-08 22153, 2004
tma
I'm not suggesting at all that you can't fix things without having the original handy
2004-08-08 22156, 2004
Skunky is modding stuff like mad. (:
2004-08-08 22159, 2004
rcon
lol
2004-08-08 22107, 2004
tma
it just would have been handy in this case
2004-08-08 22110, 2004
Skunky has only ummmmmm 3500 more tracks to go
2004-08-08 22113, 2004
rcon
I know, but it would make things a lot easier
2004-08-08 22140, 2004
rcon
I'll check some more sources over this one, see what crossreferences I can find
2004-08-08 22106, 2004
Skunky
rcon: in the case of conflicting info, I tend to check cddb, freedb, and allmusic... if they all agree, I'm happy
2004-08-08 22107, 2004
tma
ok, I don't see anything to say that the sub-title rule wouldn't apply to track titles as well, but the use of parenthesis is in common use - I'd say that for track titles either way is fine
2004-08-08 22138, 2004
tma
the feeling I get is that album titles are seen to be a little more strict than track titles
2004-08-08 22111, 2004
tma
remembering that the Style Guide is just that : a guide. sometimes there are exceptions, and I know that it's far from perfect
2004-08-08 22124, 2004
rcon
yea
2004-08-08 22144, 2004
tma
Skunky: cddb and freedb are probably the worst sources for reliable information
2004-08-08 22112, 2004
tma
Amazon is "ok" (given that the entries are put in by record shops, this makes them prone to error too)
2004-08-08 22155, 2004
tma
I usually try to find a decent artist discography if there's any inconsistency with the information
2004-08-08 22110, 2004
tma
assuming I don't have the original on hand
2004-08-08 22114, 2004
Skunky
tma: yes, but they're there, and amazon's got more things spelled wrong than freedb does, with the stuff I'm doing (they seem to think that "thinkin' and goin'" should be "thinking" and "going" those bastards)
2004-08-08 22141, 2004
rcon
I can't even actually find this album on freedb
2004-08-08 22145, 2004
rcon
nor the artist for that matter
2004-08-08 22122, 2004
tma
maybe it's all a figment of your imagination .. or mine. Hmm.
2004-08-08 22128, 2004
tma
;)
2004-08-08 22130, 2004
rcon
I tend to check allmusic and CD universe, since they're far more accurate than amazon and usually are in agreemence with allmusic
2004-08-08 22136, 2004
rcon
lol
2004-08-08 22112, 2004
tma
depending on the music type, another point of reference can me www.discogs.com too. often they have cover scans too, which can help
2004-08-08 22157, 2004
rcon
front and back?
2004-08-08 22102, 2004
tma
s/me/be/
2004-08-08 22103, 2004
Skunky
coverscans are nice, if they're high enough resolution that you can read that itty bitty type. (:
2004-08-08 22104, 2004
tma
sometimes
2004-08-08 22130, 2004
tma
they work with a lot of vinyl too, so sometimes the record itself is scanned, with the track listing
2004-08-08 22133, 2004
tma
it depends
2004-08-08 22101, 2004
Skunky
vinyl? wow, that's so... OLD
2004-08-08 22106, 2004
tma
well, it's still very common for a lot of electronic music, or club music.
2004-08-08 22120, 2004
tma
12" versions for DJ mixes, etc
2004-08-08 22124, 2004
rcon
uh... what if I can't even find any info on the song ;D
2004-08-08 22112, 2004
tma
rcon: anyway, getting back to the original question - the reason that the sub-title rule is strongly associated with album titles would be because album titles are often in two sections (ie: the title, and the sub-title). it's much rarer for a track title to be done this way
2004-08-08 22140, 2004
rcon
right
2004-08-08 22142, 2004
rcon
ok
2004-08-08 22157, 2004
rcon
so... each rule could apply to either?
2004-08-08 22107, 2004
tma
and usually when a track has a sub-title it is parenthesised in the original track listing. usually.
2004-08-08 22114, 2004
tma
that's on the original, I mean
2004-08-08 22141, 2004
tma
rcon: yes, I'd say that for track titles, either way is fine, as I said above
2004-08-08 22111, 2004
tma
it would depend on how the original is presented, and perhaps on how the artist would prefer it (if known)
2004-08-08 22137, 2004
rcon
ok
2004-08-08 22109, 2004
rcon
thanks man
2004-08-08 22113, 2004
tma
np
2004-08-08 22157, 2004
Skunky
rcon: track names with ...'s in them rarely have a space between the words they separate
2004-08-08 22115, 2004
Skunky
rcon: the space after the ... is to un-break some something that I can't remember now
2004-08-08 22144, 2004
tma
Skunky: it's also correct grammar
2004-08-08 22123, 2004
tma
(in English, anyway :)
2004-08-08 22129, 2004
Skunky
tma: well, yeah, but, i guess the question would be, does correct grammar apply to an artist name? (:
so elipsi(? plurals - curse them!) don't have any spaces anywhere? so the iron maiden track bring your daughter... to the slaughter should be bring your daughter...to the slaughter? that doesn't make much sense, since in writing they put a space after it. or maybe I'm confused
2004-08-08 22133, 2004
rcon
well that actually is the case with that artist though
2004-08-08 22147, 2004
Skunky
rcon: no, the space is correct, the no space is wrong
2004-08-08 22133, 2004
rcon
07(Skunky07): I own the only album of theirs that's in the database, and multiple instances of their name (all of them in fact) have no space between the elipsis and I'm
2004-08-08 22136, 2004
rcon
woah
2004-08-08 22138, 2004
rcon
what the hell
2004-08-08 22122, 2004
rcon
did it just display orange parentheses for you guys? I dunno if it's just polaris or not
2004-08-08 22141, 2004
tma
rcon: the website you referenced - the website title is "FUCK...I'M DEAD" but the graphic on their page doesn't even show the ellipsis at all
2004-08-08 22154, 2004
tma
it's starting to be inconsistently applied ...
2004-08-08 22103, 2004
rcon
I know
2004-08-08 22125, 2004
rcon
also see... let me get the URL quick, it's for their official forum on SMN which I go to quite often
2004-08-08 22136, 2004
rcon
actually it should be on their index
2004-08-08 22137, 2004
Skunky
rcon: yes yes, but you rather miss my point. smooshing everything together breaks stuff sometimes, regardless of what the artists want to call themselves. (:
2004-08-08 22138, 2004
tma
they have other refs in their text with the ellipsis, no space
rcon: ok, I'll agree with you on that one, no space after the ellipsis as per artist preference
2004-08-08 22155, 2004
rcon
right
2004-08-08 22103, 2004
tma
Skunky: I'm not sure I can think of anything in particular that will break ..? except perhaps Windows filenames, which MB doesn't care about. :)
2004-08-08 22148, 2004
Skunky
tma: like i said, it breaks something somewhere, i just can't remember what right now... i'll think of it, in a day or 2, maybe. (:
2004-08-08 22114, 2004
rcon
I put in an alias mod with the space, just in case they put in the space not knowing whether it's supposed to be there or not (as most people will probably do)
2004-08-08 22154, 2004
rcon
since if they searched for it with the space, the engine wouldn't pick it
2004-08-08 22159, 2004
rcon
pick it up*
2004-08-08 22122, 2004
tma
and the alias will make it come up in searches too
2004-08-08 22141, 2004
rcon
well it will allow both versions to come up
2004-08-08 22106, 2004
rcon
where as without it, the spaced version wouldn't work since it has one too many characters/"invalid" characters
2004-08-08 22120, 2004
tma
?
2004-08-08 22134, 2004
tma
a search for "fuck... I'm dead" should return either
2004-08-08 22106, 2004
tma
I would have thought that best practice for searches would be to ignore periods
2004-08-08 22109, 2004
rcon
if the artist name is fuck...I'm Dead it wont, since it's searching for a version with two spaces
2004-08-08 22117, 2004
tma
and ignore spaces
2004-08-08 22135, 2004
rcon
I don't know how the MB engine is set up, but I would assume it would miss ut
2004-08-08 22138, 2004
rcon
it*
2004-08-08 22152, 2004
rcon
it would also be searching for a single word fuck...I'm
2004-08-08 22156, 2004
rcon
instead of two
2004-08-08 22100, 2004
tma
the search ignores spaces. ie: a search for "Aphex Twin" still returns "Aphex Twin"
2004-08-08 22118, 2004
tma
as I said, it should ignore periods, treat them as spaces
2004-08-08 22126, 2004
rcon
ah
2004-08-08 22147, 2004
rcon
er... well... I dunno then. is what I did right then or no?
2004-08-08 22100, 2004
tma
yes, you did the right thing
2004-08-08 22125, 2004
tma
the artist name with no space after the ellipsis is correct. nothing to do with searches though. :)
2004-08-08 22159, 2004
tma
the alias means that artist names with the space will be converted, which is what we want.
2004-08-08 22100, 2004
rcon
I guess I need to update my knowledge of search engines and boolean crap then
2004-08-08 22112, 2004
rcon
yea
2004-08-08 22114, 2004
rcon
ok
2004-08-08 22133, 2004
tma
and just to confirm : yes, the search ignores periods
2004-08-08 22115, 2004
rcon
ok
2004-08-08 22122, 2004
rcon
thanks a lot, I appreciate ya helpin' out the n00b
2004-08-08 22137, 2004
rcon
er... that sounded sarcastic, it wasn't meant to be
2004-08-08 22137, 2004
tma
no problem at all, happy to be of service
2004-08-08 22103, 2004
Skunky just tries to not make typos when adding new albums... and doesn't always succeed
2004-08-08 22125, 2004
rcon
I guess I have one more question if you don't mind
2004-08-08 22129, 2004
tma
sure
2004-08-08 22106, 2004
rcon
let me grab the modids quick so you can see what I mean
2004-08-08 22113, 2004
rcon
actually I don't need to
2004-08-08 22108, 2004
rcon
for files with characters that windows can't use / \ : ? * < > " is there some way to encode it so that it displays right when the tagger renames the files?
