#musicbrainz

Knio_ is now known as Knio-dinner

Knio-dinner is now known as Knio

'ello

smello?

anyone here that's an expert on style? I need proof that only album subtitles are separated with colons... if that's correct

rcon|InChicago is now known as rcon

rcon: I'm the "Style Dude", is that close enough? :)

lol yea

so you're tarragon eh?

yep, that's me

how can I help?

cool... well I have a question that I know you can answer then. I'm pretty sure what I've done is correct, but I can't find any proof in the style guide that says one way or the other, so if you don't mind taking a look at a mod in contest... http://www.musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=1...

looking at ..

oh sorry

hmm

uh, the subtitle syntax, whether it's correct for track or album

huh? oh, sorry, I meant "I'm looking at it now"

oh

:)

I thought you meant what am I looking for. oh well

I don't think there's anything in the style guide to specifically make the "sub-title" rule only apply to album titles

and there are examples where the sub-title rule is used for tracks, ie: track 10 from http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/b0fd44fd-8e9a-...

however, the use of parenthesis to seperate a sub-title is also in common use

mainly in track titles though

one query about your mod : you've removed the "2" from the original title, are you sure that's corrent?

correct

right. I've been told by several other mods who have more experience than myself (mo, HairMetalAddict etc.) that colons only apply to album titles, and, for the most part, the parentheses only apply to track titles

yea, tiamats site has no digit

hum .. I don't suppose you have the original CD handy?

no... =\

(:

probably shouldn't do a ton of mods on stuff I don't own, but I'd be done 5500 mods ago otherwise

I'm not suggesting at all that you can't fix things without having the original handy

it just would have been handy in this case

I know, but it would make things a lot easier

I'll check some more sources over this one, see what crossreferences I can find

rcon: in the case of conflicting info, I tend to check cddb, freedb, and allmusic... if they all agree, I'm happy

ok, I don't see anything to say that the sub-title rule wouldn't apply to track titles as well, but the use of parenthesis is in common use - I'd say that for track titles either way is fine

the feeling I get is that album titles are seen to be a little more strict than track titles

remembering that the Style Guide is just that : a guide. sometimes there are exceptions, and I know that it's far from perfect

yea

Skunky: cddb and freedb are probably the worst sources for reliable information

Amazon is "ok" (given that the entries are put in by record shops, this makes them prone to error too)

I usually try to find a decent artist discography if there's any inconsistency with the information

assuming I don't have the original on hand

tma: yes, but they're there, and amazon's got more things spelled wrong than freedb does, with the stuff I'm doing (they seem to think that "thinkin' and goin'" should be "thinking" and "going" those bastards)

I can't even actually find this album on freedb

nor the artist for that matter

maybe it's all a figment of your imagination .. or mine. Hmm.

;)

I tend to check allmusic and CD universe, since they're far more accurate than amazon and usually are in agreemence with allmusic

lol

depending on the music type, another point of reference can me www.discogs.com too. often they have cover scans too, which can help

front and back?

s/me/be/

coverscans are nice, if they're high enough resolution that you can read that itty bitty type. (:

sometimes

they work with a lot of vinyl too, so sometimes the record itself is scanned, with the track listing

it depends

vinyl? wow, that's so... OLD

well, it's still very common for a lot of electronic music, or club music.

12" versions for DJ mixes, etc

uh... what if I can't even find any info on the song ;D

rcon: anyway, getting back to the original question - the reason that the sub-title rule is strongly associated with album titles would be because album titles are often in two sections (ie: the title, and the sub-title). it's much rarer for a track title to be done this way

right

ok

so... each rule could apply to either?

and usually when a track has a sub-title it is parenthesised in the original track listing. usually.

that's on the original, I mean

rcon: yes, I'd say that for track titles, either way is fine, as I said above

it would depend on how the original is presented, and perhaps on how the artist would prefer it (if known)

ok

thanks man

np

rcon: track names with ...'s in them rarely have a space between the words they separate

rcon: the space after the ... is to un-break some something that I can't remember now

Skunky: it's also correct grammar

(in English, anyway :)

tma: well, yeah, but, i guess the question would be, does correct grammar apply to an artist name? (:

example?

tma: http://www.musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=1...

so elipsi(? plurals - curse them!) don't have any spaces anywhere? so the iron maiden track bring your daughter... to the slaughter should be bring your daughter...to the slaughter? that doesn't make much sense, since in writing they put a space after it. or maybe I'm confused

well that actually is the case with that artist though

rcon: no, the space is correct, the no space is wrong

07(Skunky07): I own the only album of theirs that's in the database, and multiple instances of their name (all of them in fact) have no space between the elipsis and I'm

woah

what the hell

did it just display orange parentheses for you guys? I dunno if it's just polaris or not

rcon: the website you referenced - the website title is "FUCK...I'M DEAD" but the graphic on their page doesn't even show the ellipsis at all

it's starting to be inconsistently applied ...

I know

also see... let me get the URL quick, it's for their official forum on SMN which I go to quite often

actually it should be on their index

rcon: yes yes, but you rather miss my point. smooshing everything together breaks stuff sometimes, regardless of what the artists want to call themselves. (:

they have other refs in their text with the ellipsis, no space

lol true

rcon: ok, I'll agree with you on that one, no space after the ellipsis as per artist preference

right

Skunky: I'm not sure I can think of anything in particular that will break ..? except perhaps Windows filenames, which MB doesn't care about. :)

tma: like i said, it breaks something somewhere, i just can't remember what right now... i'll think of it, in a day or 2, maybe. (:

I put in an alias mod with the space, just in case they put in the space not knowing whether it's supposed to be there or not (as most people will probably do)

since if they searched for it with the space, the engine wouldn't pick it

pick it up*

and the alias will make it come up in searches too

well it will allow both versions to come up

where as without it, the spaced version wouldn't work since it has one too many characters/"invalid" characters

?

a search for "fuck... I'm dead" should return either

I would have thought that best practice for searches would be to ignore periods

if the artist name is fuck...I'm Dead it wont, since it's searching for a version with two spaces

and ignore spaces

I don't know how the MB engine is set up, but I would assume it would miss ut

it*

it would also be searching for a single word fuck...I'm

instead of two

the search ignores spaces. ie: a search for "Aphex Twin" still returns "Aphex Twin"

as I said, it should ignore periods, treat them as spaces

ah

er... well... I dunno then. is what I did right then or no?

yes, you did the right thing

the artist name with no space after the ellipsis is correct. nothing to do with searches though. :)

the alias means that artist names with the space will be converted, which is what we want.

I guess I need to update my knowledge of search engines and boolean crap then

yea

ok

and just to confirm : yes, the search ignores periods

ok

thanks a lot, I appreciate ya helpin' out the n00b

er... that sounded sarcastic, it wasn't meant to be

no problem at all, happy to be of service

I guess I have one more question if you don't mind

sure

let me grab the modids quick so you can see what I mean

actually I don't need to

for files with characters that windows can't use / \ : ? * < > " is there some way to encode it so that it displays right when the tagger renames the files?

so that it displays right where?

such as: http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/1770375c-92b4-... http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/9a4a7cf8-78fa-... and http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/2f142bf8-bd1e-...

in windows itself

for example... on these mods, after I used them to tag my files, the file names where all screwed to hell

15 Year Killin____st of Volume 1)