what about album names though? can't have aliases for those
2003-08-01 21305, 2003
djce
maybe we should do.
2003-08-01 21315, 2003
codeFiend
and some albums come out with transliterated titles in english-speaking countries, but some come out with translated titles
2003-08-01 21336, 2003
codeFiend
so, a person might search for 'Sestra Kaos', or 'Sister Chaos', or '������ ����'
2003-08-01 21351, 2003
codeFiend
which should all match one album
2003-08-01 21304, 2003
codeFiend
there's no good way to handle that right now.
2003-08-01 21310, 2003
djce
I think that aliases would fit that quite well.
2003-08-01 21328, 2003
djce
Now on a related note, I've always wanted to add an "alias type" field.
2003-08-01 21330, 2003
codeFiend
same for song names then?
2003-08-01 21341, 2003
codeFiend
yeah, alias type would come in useful if we had all these.
2003-08-01 21348, 2003
djce
possibly. Why not? Most tracks won't have any aliases, so no big deal.
2003-08-01 21306, 2003
codeFiend
alias types: group pseudonym | translation | transliteration
2003-08-01 21308, 2003
codeFiend
something like that ;)
2003-08-01 21310, 2003
djce
yes, where the alias types might include: spelling mistake,
2003-08-01 21315, 2003
djce
yes, and what you said too :-)
2003-08-01 21325, 2003
codeFiend
well, spelling mistakes should be deleted or merged anyway ;)
2003-08-01 21329, 2003
codeFiend
imho
2003-08-01 21336, 2003
djce
Well, maybe not.
2003-08-01 21341, 2003
codeFiend
why not?
2003-08-01 21300, 2003
djce
As long as they're *marked* as spelling mistakes, then leaving them in helps with searching.
2003-08-01 21306, 2003
djce
But they should not be mistaken for good data.
2003-08-01 21318, 2003
codeFiend
ehh... search should ideally use a phonetic similarity algorithm of some sort anyway
2003-08-01 21321, 2003
djce
Which is where the lack of an alias type hurts.
2003-08-01 21328, 2003
djce
true.
2003-08-01 21334, 2003
codeFiend
can't really rely on a search that only depends on explicitly entered variants
2003-08-01 21357, 2003
djce
No, but as long as it does, then keeping those variants kind of works.
2003-08-01 21302, 2003
codeFiend
true.
2003-08-01 21332, 2003
codeFiend
I know there are phonetic libraries for english, don't know where you'd find them for other languages though... and two words that are phonetically similar in english are not necessarily very similar in, say, french...
2003-08-01 21334, 2003
codeFiend
hmm
2003-08-01 21337, 2003
codeFiend
tricky tricky.
2003-08-01 21342, 2003
djce
I'm no expert in building effective search systems, but I'd imagine that a good system does a bit of both....
2003-08-01 21351, 2003
djce
namely, exact matching on the good data...
2003-08-01 21358, 2003
codeFiend
yeah...
2003-08-01 21303, 2003
djce
plus exact matching on known not-good data,...
2003-08-01 21313, 2003
djce
plus "learning" about more not-good data.
2003-08-01 21318, 2003
codeFiend
hehe
2003-08-01 21339, 2003
codeFiend
so what would it take to add alias capability to those fields and alias types?
2003-08-01 21345, 2003
codeFiend
who do we have to bribe? :)
2003-08-01 21306, 2003
djce
It's not hard I suppose.... one extra DB field, pick some values to go in it....
2003-08-01 21319, 2003
djce
pick one of those values to be the default (for all the existing data)...
2003-08-01 21333, 2003
djce
then modify a couple of screens so you can edit the types for each alias.
2003-08-01 21301, 2003
djce
Finally, optionally, treat the different alias types differently. But that is optional.
2003-08-01 21335, 2003
djce
Do you think you could put your thoughts on this into a page on the Wiki?
2003-08-01 21342, 2003
djce
That would be very useful.
2003-08-01 21359, 2003
codeFiend
sure... which section?
2003-08-01 21329, 2003
djce looks
2003-08-01 21353, 2003
djce
current work?
2003-08-01 21302, 2003
djce
It can always be moved, anyway.
2003-08-01 21349, 2003
codeFiend
hmm, hmm.
2003-08-01 21312, 2003
codeFiend
is there anyone actively working on the project right now? the news section looks kinda outdated...
2003-08-01 21331, 2003
djce
The /news/index.html page?
2003-08-01 21348, 2003
codeFiend
yah
2003-08-01 21307, 2003
djce
Most of the server stuff goes on a different page...
I admit I haven't done much in the past week or so, but yes it is being worked on.
2003-08-01 21347, 2003
codeFiend
not even that as much as just, doesn't seem like any of the stuff being discussed on the wiki when I looked about 5 months ago was much worked on... ah, lemme check that page now ;)
2003-08-01 21350, 2003
codeFiend
hehe
2003-08-01 21303, 2003
codeFiend
what's the codebase btw, perl?
2003-08-01 21308, 2003
djce
Yes.
2003-08-01 21315, 2003
codeFiend
hmm, hmm :)
2003-08-01 21320, 2003
djce
Perl, Apache, mod_perl, Mason, Postgres, DBI.
2003-08-01 21321, 2003
codeFiend
gnarly fun stuff.
2003-08-01 21336, 2003
codeFiend
I've been doing more php work lately, bit rusty on my perl.
oh yeah, wasn't there going to be an 'email forgotten password' page?
2003-08-01 21353, 2003
djce
Yes. Going to be, future tense, still :-)
2003-08-01 21356, 2003
codeFiend
ahh :)
2003-08-01 21306, 2003
djce
But at least all the infrastructure is in place for that now.
2003-08-01 21314, 2003
codeFiend
coolness.
2003-08-01 21333, 2003
djce
I did start to code that, but never got round to making it slick enough for a final release.
2003-08-01 21309, 2003
codeFiend
oh yeah, do you know, what's the reasoning behind the tagger importing TRM's from mp3 files, but not song length?
2003-08-01 21326, 2003
codeFiend
I mean, logically, if the song was cut short anyway, the TRM wouldn't be right either, right?
2003-08-01 21354, 2003
djce
Mmm. that sounds sensible. I've never heard anyone else mention that, as far as I remember.
2003-08-01 21317, 2003
djce
Are you subscribed to -users mailing list?
2003-08-01 21321, 2003
codeFiend
nope.
2003-08-01 21330, 2003
djce
You've certainly got some interesting things to say....
2003-08-01 21346, 2003
codeFiend shrugs. This is an interesting project. I'd love to have a hand in it ;)
2003-08-01 21357, 2003
codeFiend
except I don't think my perl skills are up to snuff
2003-08-01 21306, 2003
djce
No matter.
2003-08-01 21320, 2003
djce
Most people involved with MB don't do coding.
2003-08-01 21321, 2003
codeFiend
once the RDF system is worked out though, could write some php apps to interface with the db ;)
2003-08-01 21330, 2003
codeFiend
have some ideas *evil grin*
2003-08-01 21345, 2003
djce
We need people who know about all sorts of stuff... i18n, l10n, etc....
2003-08-01 21327, 2003
djce
People with interesting ideas (such as yourself) are always welcome, of course!
2003-08-01 21337, 2003
codeFiend
hehe.
2003-08-01 21358, 2003
djce
It's probably worth subscribing to the -users list, and asking your tagger-song-length question there.
2003-08-01 21300, 2003
codeFiend
btw: regarding transliterated titles, those could actually be done automatically fairly easily ;)
2003-08-01 21317, 2003
djce
and maybe discussing the other things we've talked about too.
2003-08-01 21323, 2003
codeFiend
mhmm.
2003-08-01 21349, 2003
djce
In fact, if you're interested in programming too (albeit PHP), maybe the -devel list would interest you too. -devel is very low traffic.
2003-08-01 21304, 2003
codeFiend
sure.
2003-08-01 21314, 2003
djce
yay. Welcome :-)
2003-08-01 21314, 2003
codeFiend
could brush up on my perl maybe ;)
2003-08-01 21309, 2003
codeFiend
the thing that always bugged me about perl though is how difficult it is to debug... I mean, if there's a mistake, all you get is a '501 server error'... I have to be a frickin' telepath to figure out what the error is ;)
2003-08-01 21324, 2003
codeFiend
that's the main reason I never got into it very much.
2003-08-01 21342, 2003
djce
True. Apparently you can use funky debugger stuff, even in the web environment.
see that wiki page, add anything you think I've missed.
2003-08-01 21356, 2003
djce
I'm reading it now...
2003-08-01 21313, 2003
djce
Looks good. Thanks!
2003-08-01 21320, 2003
codeFiend
no worries :)
2003-08-01 21359, 2003
djce
It's probably a good idea now to get posting on the mb-users mailing list, and see if you can get feedback from people about these issues.
2003-08-01 21311, 2003
codeFiend
should these questions be duplicated in an email to the dev-mailing list? don't know how many people would notice the extra item on the main page...
2003-08-01 21318, 2003
codeFiend
hehe, you are reading my mind :)
2003-08-01 21333, 2003
djce
The more people talk about something, the more likely there are to get actioned. As a rule.
2003-08-01 21342, 2003
djce
Genres are the exception ;-)
2003-08-01 21343, 2003
codeFiend
both user-list and dev-list? or user-list only?
2003-08-01 21303, 2003
codeFiend
well, with genres, it's always very subjective :)
2003-08-01 21309, 2003
djce
Probably -users only. I think you can take it as read that people subscribed to -dev are almost certainly also on -users.
2003-08-01 21315, 2003
codeFiend
mm, k
2003-08-01 21326, 2003
codeFiend
the best way of implementing genres I've seen is on allmusic.com
2003-08-01 21354, 2003
codeFiend
each artist is defined by his relations to other similar/dissimilar artists...
2003-08-01 21340, 2003
codeFiend
much more useful to say that 'Metallica is more energetic than Led Zeppelin and less psychedelic than Pink Floyd' than just defining all three as 'rock', for example.
2003-08-01 21357, 2003
codeFiend
just my 5 cents :)
2003-08-01 21327, 2003
djce
It certainly sounds sensible... but genres just seems to be one of those issues that always create lots of talk that goes nowhere :-(
