how is it the problem if the consumer doesn't care about it, but sure :)
2019-01-04 00458, 2019
aphirst
"everyone collectively made a bad decision" is the least satisfying of all worlds
2019-01-04 00425, 2019
Kapish has quit
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aphirst
"everyone agreed on something not actually in their own best interest for [god knows why]"
2019-01-04 00449, 2019
aphirst
see: politics
2019-01-04 00452, 2019
darwin
while I don't disagree, exactly, I think we undervalue what-people-actually-want at our peril, heh
2019-01-04 00415, 2019
aphirst
interests are decoupled
2019-01-04 00422, 2019
darwin
in reality, with people djing 320 mp3s in the club, nothing is lost compared to everyone using FLAC.
2019-01-04 00446, 2019
darwin
nothing anyone can detect, and in return there's a huge amount of "ease of use" from the defacto standard being smaller than WAV
2019-01-04 00456, 2019
aphirst
legitimate technical interest vs "i want thing to work without having to think" vs "i want to sell stuff at highest price with lowest effort"
2019-01-04 00405, 2019
Dr-Flay
I DJ with Winamp/WACUP so use whateve formats the files come in, including tracker modules
2019-01-04 00440, 2019
aphirst
but a someone who doesn't even really understand or appreciate what it is that DJs are actually supposed to do all i can do is shrug the shoulders
2019-01-04 00405, 2019
darwin
google "harmonic dj mixing" and you'll understand at least one thing that DJs do :)
2019-01-04 00416, 2019
darwin
briefly, they make sure the songs are in compatible keys
2019-01-04 00433, 2019
aphirst
sounds like something computers can do?
2019-01-04 00443, 2019
Dr-Flay
or use a bridge sample with no beat
2019-01-04 00451, 2019
aphirst
or that could be handled automatically by listening once and tagging appropriately?
2019-01-04 00459, 2019
darwin
sure, computers ultimately can do everything, so what you just said is a non-statement to me, but sure
2019-01-04 00411, 2019
darwin
(yes, yes, not "everything")
2019-01-04 00416, 2019
aphirst
do i look like someone who goes to parties or who listens to music people play at parties
2019-01-04 00435, 2019
Dr-Flay
go to better parties
2019-01-04 00453, 2019
aphirst
pretty much the entirety of english language popular music for 20 years could drop off the face of the map and i wouldn't notice
2019-01-04 00459, 2019
darwin
I simply use DJing as an example where people (DJs) theoretically would want to use lossless, because they're amplifying their source file to a large audience at high volume
2019-01-04 00416, 2019
aphirst
darwin, presumably using highest quality audio equipment
2019-01-04 00427, 2019
darwin
but in practice, neither the industry nor the artists nor the audience in question really care
2019-01-04 00446, 2019
aphirst
on the flip side though, archivists only have to rip an album correctly once
2019-01-04 00400, 2019
darwin
and, I submit, probably shouldn't. because nobody can meaningfully tell the difference in sound between this world and that world.
2019-01-04 00415, 2019
darwin
and "we" get a giant win from using MP3 vs wav already
2019-01-04 00454, 2019
aphirst
i wonder whether there will ever be a 'new wave' of lossless audio formats that exploit hitherto unknown patterns in sound
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darwin
I totally agree about archivists, but almost no one is an archivist, and a lot fewer people this year than, say, 10 years ago.
2019-01-04 00416, 2019
aphirst
fewer by number or by percentage
2019-01-04 00425, 2019
aphirst
by percentage trivially true because now almost everyone interacts with digital audio
2019-01-04 00426, 2019
darwin
fair point, percentage.
2019-01-04 00406, 2019
Dr-Flay
media has become disposable so nobody feels the need to archive. Untill they have no web connection
2019-01-04 00408, 2019
aphirst
this is something i dislike about money-based incentive structures
2019-01-04 00425, 2019
aphirst
or fandoms/clubs/interest-groups in general
2019-01-04 00429, 2019
aphirst
the pattern is the same
2019-01-04 00403, 2019
aphirst
core group of diligent individuals remains mostly steady state, but then there's a boom of "secondary" interest that proportionally swamps them, mainly due to /by construction/ being low-effort engagers
2019-01-04 00404, 2019
darwin
a class of objects with endless supply, that never degrades, must decrease in value even if that value is only measured by attention
2019-01-04 00416, 2019
aphirst
and then all the money and attention gets shifted to them
2019-01-04 00424, 2019
Dr-Flay
torrent isnt very useful for long term archiving, it is best for distribution. The classic model of p2p works for long term archiving
2019-01-04 00435, 2019
aphirst
because "there are almost none of the nerds" despite it being a conflation of numbers
2019-01-04 00452, 2019
Dr-Flay
^this
2019-01-04 00454, 2019
aphirst
Dr-Flay, yeah it's always a shame when interesting torrents die
2019-01-04 00404, 2019
darwin
aphirst: you seem to be basically describing a bell curve of interest, it does not seem surprising that the more general the audience the less deep the interest
2019-01-04 00419, 2019
aphirst
darwin, exactly, though i am emphatically lamenting it too
2019-01-04 00427, 2019
darwin
without the secondary market, the thing actually mostly doesn't really exist
2019-01-04 00429, 2019
aphirst
it screws everything up because it ends up sabotaging everything
2019-01-04 00450, 2019
darwin
taking musical trends as an example, baltimore club music for example basically doesn't exist outside of baltimore, and then outside of a very small subset of people there
2019-01-04 00458, 2019
Dr-Flay
I have used Shareaza for many years, and often restarted old downloads from salvaged drives. Even had an 8 year old file finish. You wont get that with torrent
2019-01-04 00402, 2019
darwin
Diplo popularizes it and it lives "forever" as a style
2019-01-04 00405, 2019
aphirst
evicting the very people who'd make the group have any lasting value by overprioritising appealing to the short term, relatively mindless flocks
2019-01-04 00430, 2019
aphirst
tldr elitism
2019-01-04 00437, 2019
darwin
most forms of human creativity are fashion, it's not surprising that fashions rise and fall
2019-01-04 00447, 2019
aphirst
it's more than that though
2019-01-04 00453, 2019
aphirst
it's not merely ebbe and flow
2019-01-04 00407, 2019
darwin
I wouldn't say merely, I'd say primarily.
2019-01-04 00413, 2019
Dr-Flay
well, science is an expesion of our creativity
2019-01-04 00421, 2019
aphirst
there's usually a destructive element too, feedback from the new majority against the old guard for whatever stupid reason someone thinks up
2019-01-04 00430, 2019
aphirst
money or bad ideology, whatever
2019-01-04 00421, 2019
darwin
yeah, in any case, in sum. if I were coding a video game and needed a good, space efficient audio codec to license for free, I'd use opus for sure.
2019-01-04 00428, 2019
aphirst
sorry, i'm in a crummy mood atm
2019-01-04 00446, 2019
darwin
if I was doing anything with consumer devices outside of the case where I really care about filesize, I'd use mp3 :)
2019-01-04 00404, 2019
darwin
it's all good man, we're just some enthusiastic nerds on the internet
2019-01-04 00421, 2019
Lotheric
just remember the days of realaudio and be grateful :)
2019-01-04 00425, 2019
darwin
I fundamentally agree with most of your critique of collective behavior and its especially technically suboptimal expression of my preferences
2019-01-04 00447, 2019
aphirst
.rm anime with hardsubs
2019-01-04 00418, 2019
Dr-Flay
i have a bunch of stuff I ripped from the BBC site at the end of the 90s, all in realmedia fomat
2019-01-04 00454, 2019
Dr-Flay
only reason I still install RM support in Winamp
2019-01-04 00402, 2019
darwin
lol, .rm anime with hardsubs
2019-01-04 00405, 2019
CallerNo6
Please do not challenge my "the 90s were better" narrative.
2019-01-04 00405, 2019
aphirst
h264 was a hell of a game changer though for the mainstream
2019-01-04 00415, 2019
darwin
Dr-Flay: I have a bunch of stuff I encoded off tv in mpeg-1
2019-01-04 00445, 2019
aphirst
the difference between mpeg4 and h264 for a lot of purposes was night and day
2019-01-04 00453, 2019
Dr-Flay
I still have my first CD rips I did on my Amiga 1200. all in MP2
2019-01-04 00406, 2019
aphirst
well, i'm not that old (thankfully?)
2019-01-04 00415, 2019
darwin
I ripped vinyl to 160k/s mp3 :/
2019-01-04 00429, 2019
aphirst
i only got online /on my own machine at home/ by 2006 or so
2019-01-04 00446, 2019
aphirst
my experience with rm and so on are faint childhood memories at other people's houses
2019-01-04 00446, 2019
Dr-Flay
I was using 192k from the start
2019-01-04 00450, 2019
aphirst
who used winmx, i recall
2019-01-04 00407, 2019
aphirst
now this may be a controversial opinion
2019-01-04 00422, 2019
aphirst
but I don't really see the point in home vinyl rips
*is a problem with appealing to idiots and letting marketing dictate technical decisions
2019-01-04 00459, 2019
aphirst
replaygain came too late
2019-01-04 00443, 2019
Dr-Flay
beats me why most of the media players I have tried just have an on/off option for adding volume leveling to your library, rather than let you just do 1 track or 1 album
2019-01-04 00447, 2019
aphirst
nothing about digital audio compels you to make bad mastering decisions
2019-01-04 00403, 2019
aphirst
i like doing per album replaygain
2019-01-04 00417, 2019
aphirst
helps smooth out garish differences when making my own playlists
2019-01-04 00456, 2019
Dr-Flay
indeed, but I we are not in charge of the record labels, so we constantly get blown out recording we paid for
2019-01-04 00429, 2019
darwin
also get to enjoy spotify audible-in-many-cases watermarking
2019-01-04 00414, 2019
Dr-Flay
Yeah, Winamp adds album and track volume levels so you can listen to Pink Floyd without it jumping up and down
2019-01-04 00416, 2019
aphirst
maybe in another hundred years we'll have clever AI which can "fully" decompose all music
2019-01-04 00436, 2019
aphirst
essentially reproducing the conditions in the recording studio, voices and instruments and all
2019-01-04 00453, 2019
Dr-Flay
maybe it would be a sort of uber midi or tracker player
2019-01-04 00403, 2019
aphirst
that'd be the closest analogy
2019-01-04 00409, 2019
aphirst
but obviously very, very, very sophisticated
2019-01-04 00445, 2019
Dr-Flay
feed it the raw info and using fractal methods it could render any variation
2019-01-04 00446, 2019
aphirst
you'd have to implicitly model the sound properties of most materials and also model human voice and language
2019-01-04 00402, 2019
darwin
we're going to need a lot of computronium
2019-01-04 00453, 2019
aphirst
still no verification email
2019-01-04 00458, 2019
CallerNo6
aphirst, "If you do not receive this email and it is not in your spam folder, email us about this at support@musicbrainz.org, and we'll try to find out what went wrong."
2019-01-04 00408, 2019
CallerNo6
or ask in #metabrainz (dev channel)
2019-01-04 00433, 2019
CallerNo6
Or maybe reosarevok will pop up with an answer.
2019-01-04 00417, 2019
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CatQuest
oh man people saying las 20 years of music is worthless
2019-01-04 00441, 2019
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CatQuest
also what's wrong with harsubs :D
2019-01-04 00448, 2019
CatQuest
hardsubs
2019-01-04 00421, 2019
CatQuest
:O mp2 wow i'd love ot get my hands on a mp2 (just for the effect of it!)
