basically I think the data model is off. I understand the benefits that accrue from treating transliterations as releases, but... I just don't see how they're the same thing.
2015-01-29 02905, 2015
derwin
is what it boils down to.
2015-01-29 02924, 2015
derwin
and calling them "pseudo-releases" instead of transliteration is a weird language thing
2015-01-29 02932, 2015
derwin
the only purpose of them is transliteration
2015-01-29 02933, 2015
flamingspinach
I think that having localizations of tracklists is a separate concept from pseudoreleases
2015-01-29 02935, 2015
derwin
they are transliterations?
2015-01-29 02945, 2015
flamingspinach
it's unfortunate that they've basically been conflated because that's 99.999% of what people use pseudoreleases for
2015-01-29 02953, 2015
derwin
right, I know they are different
2015-01-29 02956, 2015
derwin
I am talking about the fact you just said
2015-01-29 02901, 2015
flamingspinach
a pseudorelease is really just that - something that looks like a release but is not a release
2015-01-29 02906, 2015
Henke37
geordi? I take it that you don't mean the irc c++ compiler bot
2015-01-29 02925, 2015
nikki
the purpose of pseudo-releases is localised tracklists, the name "pseudo-release" was chosen because some transliterations/translations are official releases
2015-01-29 02928, 2015
flamingspinach
Henke37: I assume something related to mbz picard? :P
2015-01-29 02940, 2015
flamingspinach
nikki: is that just since the recent guidelines, or was it always that way?
2015-01-29 02944, 2015
Henke37
yeah, the names seem to share a theme
2015-01-29 02903, 2015
flamingspinach
Henke37: in a weird way though. It should be called laforge not geordi...
flamingspinach: as far as I can remember, that was the original reason for implementing it, yes. it was a long time ago though, perhaps I'm misremembering
2015-01-29 02922, 2015
flamingspinach
sounds like we agree then, to some extent (?)
2015-01-29 02940, 2015
flamingspinach
I see pseudoreleases as "alternative tracklists", and transliterated tracklists as one kind of alternative tracklist
2015-01-29 02950, 2015
derwin
+1
2015-01-29 02954, 2015
flamingspinach
I'd be happy to see them get their own semantic concept in mbz, rather than just being thrown in among all alternative tracklists
2015-01-29 02907, 2015
flamingspinach
but I don't think we should then also throw away the concept of alternative tracklists altogether
2015-01-29 02934, 2015
flamingspinach
sometimes there's weird edge cases like what hibiscuskazeneko was talking about (presumably - I don't really understand the issue on that edit)
I guess they must be much more common among japanese releases which is what I usually work on
2015-01-29 02918, 2015
nikki
yeah
2015-01-29 02927, 2015
nikki
and I bet there's still a bunch marked as official that nobody's spotted yet
2015-01-29 02929, 2015
flamingspinach
maybe because among the roman script based languages people don't care so much if they don't know the language, as long as they can vaguely read the words
2015-01-29 02937, 2015
flamingspinach
but if you don't know japanese then 日本語 just looks like gibberish to you lol
2015-01-29 02953, 2015
nikki
yeah, pretty much
2015-01-29 02955, 2015
flamingspinach
or your operating system / environment might not even support displaying it (if you have a bad operating system / environment)
2015-01-29 02958, 2015
nikki
I imagine it's the same for any sets of languages sharing the same scripts, people can read it and don't need a translation/transliteration to use it, even if it doesn't make sense or includes some weird characters, but if it's a different script you can't read, it's all squiggles
2015-01-29 02900, 2015
derwin
in other words, they do not exist.
2015-01-29 02904, 2015
nikki
it's just that latin is so widespread, there's not many other scripts used for a large number of languages (cyrillic and arabic are probably the main two, but even then they both have a single predominant language)...
2015-01-29 02906, 2015
derwin
and unless people start dramatically using them more
2015-01-29 02914, 2015
derwin
they are super duper irrelevant?
2015-01-29 02956, 2015
derwin
(except to the people using them)
2015-01-29 02938, 2015
flamingspinach
if they're super duper irrelevant except to the people using them, then live and let live I say :)
2015-01-29 02911, 2015
JesseW1 joined the channel
2015-01-29 02950, 2015
derwin
yeah!
2015-01-29 02940, 2015
nikki added another comment to http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/PICARD-145
2015-01-29 02949, 2015
nikki
I hope we'll be able to convince someone to work on that ticket soon :/
some have both physical and digital products, which is a problem if we can't distinguish them
2015-01-29 02949, 2015
nikki
but for ones which are exclusively one or the other that people are actually using, sure, it's not really a problem to add them
2015-01-29 02959, 2015
nikki
of course, it takes time to add things and the code has to be maintained and it makes the js that everyone has to download bigger, so it makes sense to stick to things that will be useful and not just add everything we can possibly think of, which is why we would normally look to see if people are already linking to those sites
2015-01-29 02916, 2015
shredpub joined the channel
2015-01-29 02939, 2015
Nyanko-sensei personally wants releases/release groups to have things like search hints
Is the source for the urlsearch available somewhere? I'm thinking it might be neat to add an option to return with a plain a text file, with one resulting URL per line.
does anyone else find it weird that https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_… has "(except when "Various Artists" is used, see below)" but that's the only place VA appears in that whole guideline (except for a link to an example release later on)?
2015-01-29 02957, 2015
ruaok joined the channel
2015-01-29 02917, 2015
madmouser1 joined the channel
2015-01-29 02948, 2015
simukis_ joined the channel
2015-01-29 02925, 2015
ruaok joined the channel
2015-01-29 02930, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
I'm adding Wayback Machine crawls for extant sites and removing dead ones
2015-01-29 02940, 2015
Freso
hibiscuskazeneko: :)
2015-01-29 02904, 2015
chirlu` joined the channel
2015-01-29 02917, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
no prob
2015-01-29 02934, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
if someone No-votes the archived URLs I added, I'll alert everyone
2015-01-29 02910, 2015
nikki thinks it's wrong to claim that an artist's official homepage is at archive.org
2015-01-29 02923, 2015
reoafk is not a huge fan - wonder if we should have an "archived" attribute or something
2015-01-29 02928, 2015
Julior joined the channel
2015-01-29 02942, 2015
reoafk
I mean, I definitely see the use of linking to it
2015-01-29 02954, 2015
Freso
This is why I'm a proponent of expiring URLs by marking the relationship as ended instead of straight up removing them. That way they won't be shown prominently, but will still be readily available to look up e.g. the archive without having to wade through edit histories.
2015-01-29 02923, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
That's the last of 'em!
2015-01-29 02915, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
that was easier than I thought
2015-01-29 02920, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
reosarevok: Would a ticket for an "archived" attribute constitute an MBS or STYLE ticket?
2015-01-29 02916, 2015
Freso
STYLE.
2015-01-29 02918, 2015
hibiscuskazeneko
ok
2015-01-29 02926, 2015
reosarevok
Unsure, actually. I mean, for an attribute, yes
2015-01-29 02929, 2015
Freso
Since it won't need any new code written.
2015-01-29 02931, 2015
reosarevok
But I don't know if that's the way to go
2015-01-29 02935, 2015
reosarevok
Maybe just detecting if the URL is to the Wayback Machine and displaying it differently would be better
