Ok, work done and super late here so I'm going to go home and sleep :)
2015-04-30 12018, 2015
reosarevok
Leftmost: let me know if you have any more doubts, or just send a mail at my nick @ mb
2015-04-30 12019, 2015
reosarevok
:)
2015-04-30 12026, 2015
reosarevok
Night! :)
2015-04-30 12043, 2015
LordSputnik
luks: I'm quite happy with us having 3 repositories. It's much better than just having 1. That's not really a good assessment of the state of the project. Editing has been implemented in the web service for about 3 months now - the only reason it wasn't in the site last release is because we started out using Knockout.js, a decision based on the MB client JS code, and then ditched it, because React is better.
2015-04-30 12056, 2015
LordSputnik
The soft release was never intended to be feature-complete, but represented the first time that it was secure for users to register and try things out. The whole purpose of the beta is to get feedback from users about the features we have.
2015-04-30 12057, 2015
luks
LordSputnik: but that's what I'm saying, you are focusing on technology, not being a book database
2015-04-30 12013, 2015
LordSputnik
The technology is as important as the books
2015-04-30 12022, 2015
luks
for me, the project was a haskell experiment, NES experiment, nodejs experiment, ...
2015-04-30 12029, 2015
luks
never really a book database
2015-04-30 12052, 2015
LordSputnik
Part of the idea behind the project is to make a reusable base for other *Brainz projects, so my aim is to minimize the amount of book specific code we have to write
2015-04-30 12010, 2015
Leftmost
It was never an experiment for me. For me, the focus was always on a book database. Others working on the code haven't always viewed it the same way and I haven't always been active, but that's what I've always considered it.
2015-04-30 12020, 2015
LordSputnik
Right now, you can edit three files, and turn the BookBrainz WS into a MusicBrainz WS
2015-04-30 12044, 2015
luks
LordSputnik: but you know that's never going to be done
2015-04-30 12051, 2015
LordSputnik
luks: why not?
2015-04-30 12028, 2015
luks
because the model does not fit?
2015-04-30 12041, 2015
luks
I'd like to see the versioning you have there applied to MB data
2015-04-30 12050, 2015
luks
I think that's the main reason the NES experiments failed
2015-04-30 12035, 2015
LordSputnik
Well sure, the model doesn't fit the MB schema, but that's because we've designed our schema to be different on purpose
2015-04-30 12010, 2015
LordSputnik
My point is, making a new *Brainz right now is as easy as changing three files and redesigning the website
2015-04-30 12025, 2015
LordSputnik
And I hope to make it even easier than that as we go along with BookBrainz
2015-04-30 12034, 2015
luks
I'm sorry for being skeptical, but I don't see that happening
2015-04-30 12006, 2015
LordSputnik
Well I hope it happens, otherwise making MovieBrainz and ElectronicsBrainz will be tough :P
2015-04-30 12047, 2015
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2015-04-30 12047, 2015
luks
my main lesson from working on MB was to always try to make the simplest possible thing
2015-04-30 12038, 2015
LordSputnik
Well, BB is much simpler than MB right now, so that's good :P
2015-04-30 12050, 2015
luks
the database schema is definitely not simple
2015-04-30 12017, 2015
LordSputnik
How so? It's fairly simple, we've just used inheritance to remove the need to have loads of entity specific tables, and changed the editing system to be revision-based and follow NES
2015-04-30 12047, 2015
LordSputnik
(well, NES-lite, since we ditched having both edits and revisions)
2015-04-30 12028, 2015
luks
without checking the code, tell me the sql query to get the data about the latest version of a book? :)
2015-04-30 12053, 2015
LordSputnik
sure, let me type it
2015-04-30 12021, 2015
LordSputnik
Which data do you want? :P
2015-04-30 12034, 2015
luks
title and author
2015-04-30 12037, 2015
LordSputnik
SELECT al.name, c.name FROM bookbrainz.entity AS e JOIN bookbrainz.entity_revision AS rev ON e.master_revision_id = rev.revision_id JOIN bookbrainz.entity_data AS d ON d.entity_data_id = rev.entity_data_id JOIN bookbrainz.edition_data as ed ON ed.entity_data_id = d.entity_data_id JOIN bookbrainz.creator_credit AS c ON c.creator_credit_id = ed.creator_credit_id JOIN bookbrainz.entity_alias AS al ON al.alias_id = d.defau
2015-04-30 12056, 2015
LordSputnik
c.name may be wrong, Leftmost only added that last week and I haven't had a good look at it yet :P
2015-04-30 12044, 2015
LordSputnik
and while the MB query is simpler, aliases are considered separately from the entity name and there's no support for looking at past revisions
2015-04-30 12001, 2015
LordSputnik
Oh, I missed out a table there, since entity_data -> alias is many to many
2015-04-30 12030, 2015
LordSputnik
you'd need to change the last part to ... JOIN bookbrainz.entity_data__entity_alias AS ed_al ON ed.entity_data_id = ed_al.entity_data_id JOIN bookbrainz.entity_alias AS al ON al.alias_id = ed_al.alias_id;
2015-04-30 12006, 2015
LordSputnik
but we don't use SQL anyway, so in terms of our code, that would only be: "revision = db.session.query(EntityRevision).filter_by(entity_gid=entity_gid).one(); aliases = revision.entity_data.aliases; credit = revision.entity_data.creator_credit;"
2015-04-30 12053, 2015
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2015-04-30 12059, 2015
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2015-04-30 12034, 2015
luks
well, I still have my doubts that the revision cross linking is easier to manage than a bunch of json files
2015-04-30 12011, 2015
luks
but good job on the SQL, I expected you wouldn't do it :)
2015-04-30 12023, 2015
Leftmost
I don't. I work with a bunch of JSON files at work and our data is an endless mess.
2015-04-30 12000, 2015
luks
but you link from one entity to past revisions of another entity and that can link to another ancient revision of another entity
2015-04-30 12037, 2015
luks
I can't imagine a simple way to present that to a human who is supposed to edit that
2015-04-30 12033, 2015
Leftmost
We don't link from any entities to past revisions.
2015-04-30 12059, 2015
luks
looking at the schema, you check the revision only at the top entity
2015-04-30 12013, 2015
luks
everything below that refers directly to _data tables by ID
2015-04-30 12029, 2015
luks
and if I understand correctly, those IDs can refer to past revisions
2015-04-30 12022, 2015
Leftmost
All links between entity data and another entity are by GID, from which master_revision_id is used.
2015-04-30 12057, 2015
luks
ok, then the cut-off part of the SQL must have been longer than I expected
2015-04-30 12008, 2015
LordSputnik
luks: the entity is linked to a master revision, and each revision also has an entity_gid, so we can get all the revisions for a particular entity. Each revision links to a particular piece of entity data, which links to aliases, disambiguation and annotation
2015-04-30 12027, 2015
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2015-04-30 12053, 2015
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2015-04-30 12031, 2015
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2015-04-30 12052, 2015
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2015-04-30 12047, 2015
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2015-04-30 12020, 2015
McVegan
any opinions on using Presonus interfaces with Windows 8?
2015-04-30 12052, 2015
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2015-04-30 12056, 2015
Rasi
hi
2015-04-30 12020, 2015
Rasi
quick clarification: having multiple artist tags is not spec-compilant, right?
2015-04-30 12058, 2015
kepstin
Rasi, depends on the spec
2015-04-30 12018, 2015
Rasi
ok, vorbiscomment and id3 are of interest for me
2015-04-30 12052, 2015
Rasi
i know i cant set multiple artist fields in musicbrainz picard
kepstin: but would you consider it bad practice to do so?
2015-04-30 12042, 2015
Rasi
it seems ugly to me
2015-04-30 12000, 2015
kepstin
dunno. it's not that well supported by players.
2015-04-30 12001, 2015
kepstin
id3v2.4 on the other hand has a way (in some tag types) of specifying multiple values within a single tag
2015-04-30 12018, 2015
kepstin
id3v2.3 does not, if i recall.
2015-04-30 12018, 2015
Rasi
ok
2015-04-30 12046, 2015
kepstin
(for multivalue tags in idv2.3, picard sets it to a single string with a separate character between values)
2015-04-30 12001, 2015
kepstin
anyways, in musicbrainz we set the "artist" tag always to a single string, which is the formatted "artist credit" used on the track
2015-04-30 12034, 2015
kepstin
which can contain multiple artist names, e.g. "Someone vs. Other Person" or "Some Band (feat. Awesome Vocalist)"
2015-04-30 12016, 2015
kepstin
in formats that support it, the version of picard I have (which is a recent git build, i dunno if this is in the released version) sets an additional multi-value tag that contains just the list of artists.
2015-04-30 12041, 2015
kepstin
I believe it uses the name "ARTISTS" for that in vorbiscomment.
if an automod could approve the two edits mentionned in https://musicbrainz.org/edit/32843396#note-328433… before a recording merge applies so that avoids generating duplicate ARs… it would be nice. :)
2015-04-30 12010, 2015
jesus2099
(btw, that release and recordings require some title fix after all those merges apply)
I am right in thinking that if a mb release has discids it cant possibly be a Vinyl release and should not be linked to VInyl releases on other dbs such as discogs ?
2015-04-30 12021, 2015
kepstin-laptop
aside from all the cases where discids were added by mistake to vinyl releases, yeah.
2015-04-30 12044, 2015
CallerNo6
is the discid attached to other releases too?
2015-04-30 12025, 2015
ijabz2
dunno, but in this example the key thing was it was linked to multiple disocgs releases, some oof them CD and some Vinyl
kepstin-laptop how do you add discids to vinyl, I thought they were only generated from CD's
2015-04-30 12048, 2015
ijabz2
or do you mean homemade CD's of vinyl tracks
2015-04-30 12049, 2015
kepstin-laptop
ijabz2, people have in the past added discids from a cd version of a release to the vinyl release on musicbrainz by mistake, particularly if the medium type wasn't set correctly.
2015-04-30 12056, 2015
kepstin-laptop
so we have a bunch of releases from the 70s with discids that are obviously wrong one way or the other :)
2015-04-30 12017, 2015
kepstin-laptop
dunno how much of that has been cleaned up, but there are reports for it.
2015-04-30 12020, 2015
CallerNo6
didn't the move to NGS also create a lot of incorrect release<>discid associations?
2015-04-30 12033, 2015
kepstin-laptop
CallerNo6, yes, but I believe it shouldn't have migrated discids to any release events that had format set correctly as vinyl.
