You can say "<artist> performed guitar as "xxx-guitar" on <recording>".
2014-01-02 00204, 2014
jesus2099
but not artist as BOB MAX performed…
2014-01-02 00235, 2014
Freso
jesus2099: Different fields in the database.
2014-01-02 00238, 2014
jesus2099
btw i didn’t know nor noticed we had that AC on instruments !
2014-01-02 00240, 2014
reosarevok_
Because being able to indicate a specific guitar model gives new info which is more useful that which random name is used on the credits, I expect
2014-01-02 00249, 2014
uk
Well, because someone has implemented the one, but noone has implemented the other. :)
2014-01-02 00200, 2014
uk
Also, I think MBS-333 shouldn't be done at all.
2014-01-02 00209, 2014
jesus2099
but… MBS-333 <<<<< MBS-5848
2014-01-02 00217, 2014
jesus2099
in chornology
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
jesus2099
and voters MBS-333 >>>>> MBS-5848
2014-01-02 00229, 2014
Freso
jesus2099: Chronology doesn't matter.
2014-01-02 00233, 2014
uk
The instrument credits are not available yet.
2014-01-02 00243, 2014
uk
They are in the schema, but there is no UI yet.
2014-01-02 00201, 2014
jesus2099
Freso: and voters ? :)
2014-01-02 00246, 2014
reosarevok_
They matter if a) the team agrees with the change and b) someone is willing to write it
2014-01-02 00250, 2014
reosarevok_
I'm not too sure a) is true
2014-01-02 00255, 2014
uk
re: MBS-333, you can have different artists for different identities (x performs as y).
2014-01-02 00204, 2014
Freso
MBS-5848 was likely easier to do or less controversial. Last I checked, not *everybody* was totally fine with MBS-333.
2014-01-02 00216, 2014
uk
Absolutely.
2014-01-02 00253, 2014
Freso
And as uk said, it is actually possible to work around that limitation for now, even if it's a bit hacky. There's no way to work around the instrument one.
2014-01-02 00258, 2014
reosarevok_
uk: well, having n artists for the same person just for some relationships feels fairly useless to me and is yet another issue why we don't have a real artist ID
2014-01-02 00221, 2014
reosarevok_
I just don't know whether I agree it's important enough to store the exact string that we can't just link the artist anyway
2014-01-02 00222, 2014
Freso
reosarevok_: And hence another reason MBS-333 should be done. :)
2014-01-02 00242, 2014
jesus2099
let’s say what if i’m not agree with MBS-5848…
2014-01-02 00246, 2014
uk
What do you do when the same recording is on twenty releases, with the singer credited as "John Doe" on some, "John L. Doe" on others, "J. Doe" on further ones and not at all on the rest?
2014-01-02 00254, 2014
Freso
jesus2099: Then you should've spoken up sooner.
2014-01-02 00256, 2014
jesus2099
if no MBS-333
2014-01-02 00202, 2014
reosarevok_
uk: the same as you'd do with artist credits I expect?
2014-01-02 00204, 2014
jesus2099
i didn’t see it
2014-01-02 00223, 2014
jesus2099
MBS-5848 without MBS-333 is half only
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
reosarevok_
jesus2099: blocking ticket X because you want ticket Y which is unrelated would be ridiculous anyway
2014-01-02 00234, 2014
Freso
jesus2099: If you don't agree with one improvement because another improvement hasn't been done, you should shut up and be grateful *any* improvement was done.
2014-01-02 00241, 2014
reosarevok_
(so obviously nobody would have cared whatever you said about that :p)
2014-01-02 00241, 2014
Freso
Or fix it yourself.
2014-01-02 00251, 2014
jesus2099
uk: same with guitars etc.
2014-01-02 00251, 2014
uk
reosarevok_: Each release has its own AC, but the recording is shared.
2014-01-02 00205, 2014
reosarevok_
uk: sure, and it has an AC too :p
2014-01-02 00215, 2014
jesus2099
i don’t agree
2014-01-02 00220, 2014
uk
Which I'm not sure is a good idea ...
2014-01-02 00229, 2014
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2014-01-02 00231, 2014
Freso
The code is open, there's no one stopping you from submitting a patch/pull request with your suggested approach at solving MBS-333.
2014-01-02 00240, 2014
reosarevok_
jesus2099: thankfully we don't need your agreement for everything then, or nothing would get done
2014-01-02 00246, 2014
jesus2099
but… i don’t agree !
2014-01-02 00254, 2014
Freso
reosarevok_: +1
2014-01-02 00257, 2014
jesus2099
(with what, i don’t know)
2014-01-02 00259, 2014
hawke_
uk: One possibility would be to make the credits release-specific. Insanely complicated to work with, but…
2014-01-02 00217, 2014
uk
hawke_: Yes, insane. :-p
2014-01-02 00223, 2014
reosarevok_
uk: so whatever method is used to pick that AC should also work to pick a credit (earliest, most common, "who even cares ffs"...)
2014-01-02 00230, 2014
reosarevok_ would vote for 3)
2014-01-02 00231, 2014
jesus2099
uk: what was your initial post about btw ? people didn’t understand this ticket ? well like me then ! ;)
2014-01-02 00236, 2014
reosarevok_
:p
2014-01-02 00250, 2014
jesus2099
3) ?
2014-01-02 00212, 2014
nikki
uk: most people are unaware of the "impending" instrument credits because they've been "impending" for over half a year
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
jesus2099
does anyone non -encglish knows what impeding means ?
2014-01-02 00236, 2014
nikki
uk is not english
2014-01-02 00240, 2014
reosarevok_
If they conflict just pick one and forget about it, would be my choice
2014-01-02 00240, 2014
uk
If nobody cares (3), then why make AR credits?
2014-01-02 00207, 2014
uk
impending = almost here
2014-01-02 00218, 2014
Freso
jesus2099: It means "coming up"/"arriving in the future"/etc.
2014-01-02 00224, 2014
jesus2099
ah ok !
2014-01-02 00225, 2014
uk
(whether that's true or not ;-))
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
Freso is not a native English speaker
2014-01-02 00231, 2014
reosarevok_
uk: there's a difference from "use artist name whether it fits or not" and "use one of the several credits used" I would expect :)
2014-01-02 00250, 2014
jesus2099
of course no one is aware of it, uk !
2014-01-02 00252, 2014
jesus2099
:)
2014-01-02 00207, 2014
uk
reosarevok_: I do agree for different identities, pseudonyms etc.
2014-01-02 00230, 2014
uk
But not for variations like abbreviated names.
2014-01-02 00258, 2014
jesus2099
(i mostly want MBS-333 for pen names, but) why not for abbreviated in the end as it’s what will be done for instruments ?
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
jesus2099
and we wouldn’t need all those aliases any more
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
reosarevok_
Is it what will be done for instruments?
2014-01-02 00250, 2014
jesus2099
if that ticket means AC on instr. it will be done by some editors
2014-01-02 00256, 2014
reosarevok_
I would imagine the idea for the instruments thing is either specify a model of the instrument, or specify a variation of it we don't have yet
2014-01-02 00209, 2014
jesus2099
when we want to keep these funny names instead of those boring ones.
2014-01-02 00220, 2014
reosarevok_
(so, Steinway piano model whatever, or baroque cello)
2014-01-02 00242, 2014
jesus2099
or the vacuum cleaner brand and model and serial number !
2014-01-02 00249, 2014
uk
I hope it won't get overused.
2014-01-02 00206, 2014
jesus2099
or “Joe’s guitar”…
2014-01-02 00211, 2014
reosarevok_
jesus2099: well, if it says "Jim played Joe's guitar", then maybe? Can't hurt I guess
2014-01-02 00213, 2014
jesus2099
Bob Loup played electric guitar as “Joe’s guitar” on <recording> as “Le Loup”
2014-01-02 00237, 2014
reosarevok_
A guideline would be needed though so it's not used just for translations and the like (unless we decide we want that to happen)
2014-01-02 00248, 2014
reosarevok_ shrugs
2014-01-02 00203, 2014
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2014-01-02 00201, 2014
Freso
Great. I send an e-mail and *then* my program decides to load the rest of the discussion.
2014-01-02 00220, 2014
reosarevok__
hahaha
2014-01-02 00211, 2014
reosarevok__ was expecting that to be fairly straightforward since it adds detail at no cost, but meh :p
2014-01-02 00220, 2014
reosarevok__
Apparently people really don't like churches :p
2014-01-02 00206, 2014
Freso
I actually agree to add some basic new types "School", "Library", etc. "Places of Worship" is not a good wording though. As Sputnik pointed out.
2014-01-02 00215, 2014
hawke_
I don’t have a problem with it, but to me it’s just another venue.
2014-01-02 00221, 2014
hawke_
(much like stadium/arena ;-) )
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
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2014-01-02 00207, 2014
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2014-01-02 00222, 2014
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2014-01-02 00227, 2014
uk
Freso: "but I guess there's not much difference between -0 and +0 anyway" – you haven't worked with the details of IEEE floating-point, have you? ;-)
2014-01-02 00254, 2014
reosarevok__ thought that was way too pedantic a pointing-out (re:"worship" but well, "religious building" would work for me anyway)
2014-01-02 00257, 2014
nikki
I'd just like it because some people use venue, some use other and because "other" is crap (doesn't tell us what it *is*, only what it *isn't*) and should only be for exceptions, not for a large category of things
2014-01-02 00250, 2014
hawke_2
I don’t get why someone would use 'other' though. Actually, are there any valid uses of other? nature recordings in a literal field maybe?
2014-01-02 00255, 2014
Freso
I've Other for schools at least.
2014-01-02 00213, 2014
Freso
+used
2014-01-02 00215, 2014
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2014-01-02 00231, 2014
hawke_2
Hmm, from what I’ve seen for schools it’s still generally in some sort of venue within the school (i.e. an auditorium)
2014-01-02 00222, 2014
reosarevok__
hawke_2: because a church, a town hall, etc certainly aren't places mostly designed for musical performances, so they're not venues?
2014-01-02 00246, 2014
reosarevok__
Dunno, I mean, my understanding of the word "venue" is "a dedicated place for concerts"
But that will probably remain "Other" for a while.
2014-01-02 00233, 2014
hawke_2
reosarevok__: They don’t need to be designed for *musical* performances.
2014-01-02 00210, 2014
reosarevok__
Dunno. I wouldn't mark a lecture hall as an MB venue nor a film studio as an MB studio
2014-01-02 00211, 2014
hawke_2
Dunno that a venue needs to be *designed* for it either — it’s sufficient (IMO) that it is used as such.
2014-01-02 00243, 2014
reosarevok__
The word might apply in a different context, but in MB?
2014-01-02 00233, 2014
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2014-01-02 00236, 2014
reosarevok__
So if I have a birthday party at my place with a band playing, my house's suddenly a venue?
2014-01-02 00237, 2014
drsaunders
we have a few churches here that are regularily used as concert venues
2014-01-02 00206, 2014
drsaunders
i don't understand why it matters what happens there when there aren't concerts
2014-01-02 00235, 2014
hawke_2
reosarevok__: I would if that’s where a recording took place… within the definition, “place that has live artistic performances as one of its primary functions”: a lecture hall has artistic performances as a primary function (even if they’re not always musical)…and a town hall might be used for many purposes — and if one of those purposes is live performances…
2014-01-02 00254, 2014
drsaunders
what if a venue has AA meetings during the day..those are religious..does that make the building a religious one?
2014-01-02 00255, 2014
reosarevok__
We clearly have very different ideas of "primary" :p
2014-01-02 00214, 2014
hawke_2
maybe. :-)
2014-01-02 00254, 2014
reosarevok__
A cathedral's "primary" function is clearly weird Christian stuff to me, and a football stadium's playing football
2014-01-02 00215, 2014
reosarevok__
Calling them musical venues because someone happens to play music in them feels absurd
2014-01-02 00223, 2014
drsaunders remembers smoking herb in a church at a Broken Social Scene concert
2014-01-02 00226, 2014
hawke_2
reosarevok__: even if there are concerts there (say) every month?
2014-01-02 00228, 2014
reosarevok__
I mean, the cathedrals at least have an organ maybe, but the stadiums?
2014-01-02 00254, 2014
uk
I know of a recording (on an official CD by a popular group) that was made at a motorway service area while they were travelling to a concert. That was probably the only time that place was used for music.
2014-01-02 00258, 2014
reosarevok__
My understanding of venue is "the continuum from pub with a music stage to concert hall", basically
2014-01-02 00201, 2014
drsaunders
the one church that happened at has concerts (and usually rock) once a week
2014-01-02 00235, 2014
hawke_2
uk: right, that’s probably a good case for "other"
2014-01-02 00231, 2014
hawke_2
as is reosarevok__’s house. :-)
2014-01-02 00243, 2014
hawke_2
(unless he has concerts there a lot)
2014-01-02 00217, 2014
reosarevok__ shrugs
2014-01-02 00242, 2014
reosarevok__
To me whether something is a stadium or a church is much more interesting than whether it's a "venue", whatever that means for every random person
2014-01-02 00250, 2014
CallerNo6 looks at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/venue , sees "the scene or locale of any action or event" and "any place where an organized gathering, such as a rock concert or public meeting, is held " and that's pretty much how I've always understood it.
2014-01-02 00225, 2014
reosarevok__
(I'd also probably like to have specific types for mastering vs. recording studios, but that won't really work while we can't select multiples...)
2014-01-02 00231, 2014
Freso
CallerNo6: I think the problem is that it's just called "Venue", whereas reo thinks about is "Music Venue".
2014-01-02 00237, 2014
Freso
*it as
2014-01-02 00220, 2014
hawke_2
Freso: Yeah, but we can’t call it that because MB is not strictly limited to music.
2014-01-02 00204, 2014
Freso
hawke_2: I'm down with that. :)
2014-01-02 00231, 2014
Freso
I'm just noting how the everyday-English usage of the word differs from the way reo (presumably) thinks about it.
