and I thought I was annoyingly going over and over and over again on the same point
2014-06-26 17727, 2014
CatQuest
natta everyone!
2014-06-26 17743, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Nonon
2014-06-26 17752, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
the point now is that bestiality should be legal.
2014-06-26 17721, 2014
derwin
I am probably against bestiality being legal, as animals are incapable of what humans would consider "consent."
2014-06-26 17722, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Because an animal is well able to communicate its dislike for something, and even if it isn't, there are far worse things that are legal to do to animals, like breeding them giving them a square centimetre of surface to walk on/.
2014-06-26 17727, 2014
CatQuest
only if said beasts could without a single doubt consent.
2014-06-26 17734, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
I disagree, animals are quite vocal when they don't like something.
2014-06-26 17749, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
My cat doesn't like it when I bathe him, and that needs to happen once every week as well.
2014-06-26 17753, 2014
derwin
yeah... that's when we get into the morality of animal training generally
2014-06-26 17707, 2014
CatQuest
you don't need to bath your cat.
2014-06-26 17709, 2014
derwin
probably ultimately you are correct that bestiality should be legal
2014-06-26 17714, 2014
derwin
CatQuest: if his cat is a siamese, he does.
2014-06-26 17715, 2014
CatQuest
unless he likes to play in oil for some reason
2014-06-26 17716, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
He smells like arse if I don't.
2014-06-26 17724, 2014
derwin
or whatever those hairless cats are.
2014-06-26 17730, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
No, this one has fur.
2014-06-26 17732, 2014
derwin
of course, you're the one who chose to get a deformed cat
2014-06-26 17733, 2014
derwin
etc
2014-06-26 17707, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Some cats need it, some cats don't, this is also a cat that likes to in fact swim in the stream back here, most cats don't like to swim I guess.
2014-06-26 17734, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
This isn't a specially bred one, this one comes from a nest and the father is unknown, so yeah.
2014-06-26 17738, 2014
CatQuest
cats do not need to be bathed in water. only if they are a) tupid and goes to play in the ashes of the firepalce (ours did this, and was wased once, learned it's mistake and never did this again) b) goten something weird on their fur that they cant/is poisonus to eat
2014-06-26 17717, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
This cat smells like the sewer if you don't wash it once a week.
2014-06-26 17738, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
But that's all immaterial to the point of bestiality and animals being able to indicate displeasure.
2014-06-26 17741, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Which they are well capable.
2014-06-26 17744, 2014
CatQuest
then I would consider finding out what the cat eats/bates in first
2014-06-26 17710, 2014
derwin
right, so the question is whether "pleasure" or "displeasure" is the same as "consent"
2014-06-26 17720, 2014
derwin
my view is that probably not.
2014-06-26 17727, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
It seems to be more of a case that people think people who are attracted to animals are disgusting and try to find a reason to limit the behaviour.
2014-06-26 17736, 2014
CatQuest
for he same reason i would not have sex with someone drunk but not comatose i would not have sex with an animal. the communication isn't *well*
2014-06-26 17736, 2014
derwin
you can train a dog to experience "pleasure" in a case where "normally" it wouldn't, etc.
2014-06-26 17746, 2014
CatQuest
also yes
2014-06-26 17748, 2014
derwin
if you are the one who has trained that "pleasure" reaction into it, is that moral?
2014-06-26 17753, 2014
CatQuest
pleasure =/= consent
2014-06-26 17700, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
"consent" is a super vague term anyway in this case that moral guardians invented, first to artificially keep children young, and then to stop bestiality.
2014-06-26 17720, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
I don't see the problem, children are trained by their parents as well.
2014-06-26 17727, 2014
derwin
I mostly agree, but mostly get to the point that it should be legal, but that I still find it distasteful.
2014-06-26 17733, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
If you can't train you basically say that any form of upbringing should be criminal.
2014-06-26 17741, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Punishment is nothing more than a form of conditioning/brainwashing.
2014-06-26 17746, 2014
derwin
if you think human training and animal training are the same, you have a broken model of human cognition.
2014-06-26 17754, 2014
derwin
and the conversation is over!
2014-06-26 17756, 2014
CatQuest finds no reason to think being atrected to animals or humanoid animals (e.g. furry) is disgusting. I find it natural. we grow up with crazy cartoons, books and games where all the main charaters are animals ashumans. to be atracted to a humanoid/regualr animal. is understandable
2014-06-26 17705, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
derwin, well, that's mostly the issue I think, people find it distasteful and try to find a reason that comes of as animal protection.
2014-06-26 17723, 2014
derwin
sure, and some bestial activity is in fact abusive to animals.
2014-06-26 17727, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
I don't think a lot of people are attracted to non antropomorphized animals.
2014-06-26 17730, 2014
derwin
as is some of all sexual activity.
2014-06-26 17742, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
In which case the animal will communicate it, and in that case it can fall under animal abuse.
2014-06-26 17759, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
But I really don't think dogs mind if someone smears peanut butter on her private parts and gets a dog to go over it.
2014-06-26 17700, 2014
CatQuest
can?
2014-06-26 17702, 2014
CatQuest
will!
2014-06-26 17707, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Or dogs are in any way damaged.
2014-06-26 17708, 2014
CatQuest
and I am going to bed!
2014-06-26 17710, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
by that act.
2014-06-26 17716, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Blast
2014-06-26 17717, 2014
CatQuest
this cat is not having sex with humans! MEOW!
2014-06-26 17723, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
I suckered you into a political debate and you leave me.
2014-06-26 17700, 2014
derwin
SiskosBaldHead: I believe there are cases in which an animal might be conditioned into behavior rational observers would consider abusive, and would enjoy it.
2014-06-26 17716, 2014
Nyanko-sensei joined the channel
2014-06-26 17720, 2014
derwin
the assertion that you make that if the dog doesn't mind it cannot be abusive does not seem logical
2014-06-26 17741, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
derwin, well, like I said, this includes normal upbringing of children.
2014-06-26 17747, 2014
VxJasonxV
is this debate seriously happening here?
2014-06-26 17748, 2014
derwin
for example, most observers would consider having a dog eat dog flesh to be abusive
2014-06-26 17754, 2014
derwin
VxJasonxV: not really, sigh.
2014-06-26 17700, 2014
derwin
the dog wouldn't mind
2014-06-26 17700, 2014
Nyanko-sensei joined the channel
2014-06-26 17706, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Acquiring certain tastes or even normal social courtesies are essentially instilled into children by repeated punishments if they don't like it until they do.
2014-06-26 17712, 2014
derwin
anyway, done. even less enjoyable than the DS9 discussion.
2014-06-26 17715, 2014
VxJasonxV
"not really" "but you know this thing that [...]"
2014-06-26 17725, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
derwin, this is outrageous.
2014-06-26 17730, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
You cannot just leave me like that.
2014-06-26 17736, 2014
derwin
sadly, I really, really can.
2014-06-26 17743, 2014
derwin
I mean, sadly for you. happily for me!
2014-06-26 17733, 2014
derwin
derwin of 5 years ago, now he would not have been able to leave.
2014-06-26 17749, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
I like him or her better.
2014-06-26 17757, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Fulfill s my needs better.
2014-06-26 17718, 2014
derwin
yes, he was under the illusion that part of his role included meeting the needs of random people on the internet.
2014-06-26 17725, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
Not random
2014-06-26 17727, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
my needs.
2014-06-26 17732, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
I am veritably the center of the universe.
2014-06-26 17741, 2014
derwin
you and everyone else on the internet, it seems :)
2014-06-26 17729, 2014
praest76 joined the channel
2014-06-26 17736, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
derwin, big bang man, everything is the centre.
2014-06-26 17750, 2014
SiskosBaldHead
The universe expands away from me, even now I can see the cup on my desk move away.
