#musicbrainz

*sell

both bots, coincidentally (or conspiratorially) went nuts all of a sudden at the same time

Yeah, but I can put up a list of everyone who's used the word "nazi". ¬_¬

FauxFaux: Hehe. Yeah.

just saying, you cant really trust even the good bots to behave, let alone the bad ones

srotta, Luckily good assignments usually ask for your own interpretations of a subject, than repeating what's said in existing literary sources.

juhae: Yeah. Although, in this case, the new book is right and the old ones are "wrong".

srotta, Sounds a bit unbelievable to me. Do you recall the name of the book? Or the author?

juhae: That is, older school books tell the tale of romantic-nationalistic period, when the fennomaniacs created a history for Finland.

srotta, And pretty much the whole idea of "Finland" and gave it (if objectively studied) a pretty strange meaning.

juhae: I'll look it up for you. I'll actually try and find it at some library as well, it sounded quite interesting 8)

juhae: Yep.

Partisan views on such subjects are only good :)

juhae: If you want to read on generic thoughts of few wise men, I recommend reading (and listening) Jukka Kemppinen 8)

srotta, I'm currently reading a two-book collection of essays about alternative Finnish history outcomes. Written by history professors and other academics. So far the first book has been pretty enjoyable and enjoyable. :)

juhae: Osmo Jussila is the author, name of the book is "Suomen historian suuret myytit".

There's a sort of an introduction about the first book http://www.kotinet.com/mkahieta/Dokumentit/arvi...

oooh, found it: http://xkcd.com/261/

Oraakkelin kirja :P

srotta, Osmo Jussila has written one part to the first book

Ok 8)

Not available in the local library :|

three books of Jussila's latest at my local library, none of them available though :|

Hmm. Are we looking at the same library?

:P

Nah, there's only one in Hervanta.

The library in Lahti is amazingly well equipped

They have all kinds of strange books

I'm more familiar with music sections, really, that's where I've spent most of my time in local libraries.

Our library is tiny, only open 3 afternoons a week, has no music, and is full of crazy viking artefacts

yet, whenever i ask them if they have any book, they always seem to

they probably pop into the city and pick it up before i can get up there to borrow it, now that i think about it :)

Lahti has pretty strange music section in the library as well, I even found two CDs from Les N�gresses Vertes there, although they're practically unknown in Finland

hey fauxfaux (nice to finally meet you by the way), how hard would it be to pull out a list of artists who have a single appearance on a compilation or uncategorised release?

Not too hard.

Maybe, possibly.

I have one artist I like to work on, who has 44 entries, and they are all actually him

there is even one of him collaborating with himself under another name, and featuring the band hes the leader of

complete with ars heh

"I know you think you are doing the fair and just thing here, but it really is illegal to even MENTION this other band, especially in an orderly normalized format such as here"

Thihihi

anyway, the majority of them are fairly dodgy collabs, and i know panda just hit the same issue with the cotm

lauri: If FF doesn't wake up, I can take a look at creating such a list once I get home.

that would be awesome, dont strain yourself though, i was just musing

(but i would really appreciate it, I think it would be useful)

Now, bank, library, home, in that order.

8)

lauri: I'll holler later and ask for precise specs :P

i gotta head up to stockholm soon, probably be out a few hours

i will try to pop in this evening though, thanks

lauri: (a tad late, sorry. re: bot behaviour) I thought that was my point as well?

/msg NickServ IDENTIFY <koncha>

hey

regarding the language/script thingy for artists on mb-devel, would adding lang/script to the alias table help?

not much, I think

how come?

I mean, it would obviously cover more cases than just two names

but it would also become more complex

and we would have less data in the database

because it would be fragmented

for example if you want the "english" name, you would have to define a long list of possible fallback languages

or just go for the simple case: preferred lang, fall back to default name if not present

that's what I meant by "less data in the database"

and why I prefer just two options for now

what language is "Tchaikovsky"?

is it english?

I don't think so

There should still be "script" associated with names, though. (And, IMHO, almost any text field.)

Proper name. ¬_¬

its (one of the two most common) english transliterations, i would say yes

I would say it's his english name

what about Tchaikovski?

thats his polihsh cousin

It could be a n-n mapping, ie. one "name" could map to several "language", one "language" could have several "name".

another english name

well, maybe

the problem is that translitetations would have the same form in most latin languages

if it isnt the other most common translit sceheme (which you could even argue are en-us and en-uk) then its just a bunch of random letters really :)

so if I enter it as spanish, people with prefered english language won't see it

which means you either need: transliterations to _all_ languages, long lists of fallback languages

a guideline to say, only enter other (non-en) names if they differ from both en and the default

but if you simply say to use what we use for sortnames right now, people will be mostly happy

and then we can go further from there...

lauri: +1

so the fall through can always go preferred, en, default (that would still be an improvement over what we have now)

I still get the feeling that it doesn't really solve anything though

we can already get a latin version most of the time from the sortname...

no, we can't

why not?

Here is a bit of a corner case that is in edits right now

because sortnames are not always reversible

and I'd really like to have native sortnames

Fleshquartet and fl'skkvartetten (bah, thats an auml, my keyboard is dodgy again)

sorting native name by it's transliteration is just weird

Would someone check out: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?... and the discussion for them at http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8414850

sortnames are currently english most of the time though...

yes, and that's the point

they use the english name in all their international press, and mostly have the swedish on their albums, and they flip flop all the timein mb

Its about russian and the naming of such albums

they don't match the actual names

the checkbox to reverse sortnames in picard seems to make people who can't read russian/japanese happy

so why not do it properly for this case, without overcomplicating it

it freaks out people who edit chinese on a regular basis (and sometimes greek) heh

and the bonus are proper sortnames

I guess I don't quite understand what you actually want...

two things:

1. be able to sort Чайковский by Ч

2. have an option to provide latin version of Чайковский for people who can't read it

so basically a native version and an english version...

not always english, but yes

in theory you might want to support an arbitrary number of localized transliteration targets

we actually have both of them right now, but partially broken :)

well, I'm not the one doing the coding...

because native sortnames are reversed, and transliterated names are double reversed :)

but then again, I never use sortnames anyway

I guess because it makes no sense to me to mix everything up...

hmm

luks: so what about japanese artists with latin names? would the native sortname for "the brilliant green" be "ザ・ブリリアント・グリーン"?

I have no idea what "ザ・ブリリアント・グリーン" is

their name in japanese

if it's a transliteration of "the brilliant green" than the equivalent of "brilliant green, the"

*then

if it's something in actual japanese, then I have no idea

it says "za buririanto guriin"

and they would sort it under "za", apparently

then it's "ザ・ブリリアント・グリーン"?

I'm sure they wouldn't sort it under "b"

actually no

they seem to use "the brilliant green" everywhere

it doesn't make sense to have "ザ・ブリリアント・グリーン" as the primary name at all

as the native sortname

the primary name would still be "the brilliant green"

if the native name is "the brilliant green", then the native sortname is "brilliant green, the"

name and sortname should be always paired

so the name and sortname for japanese are always the same...