#musicbrainz

i also don'T get the two puids that genpuid returns while scanning through afo/picard

MartinRudat: yea maybe, but i have 450 here, and i don't think that those are all corrupt, they all play fine, and some also have correct tagging.

Well, that's all I've heard so far. If it's not that, then we might have an overloaded server, or an actual bug.

ok, but it seems currently not known if there is a problem on MusicIPs side...

hmm.

does the MM program work for fetching a puid for those files? *shrug*

hmmm... last time i tried to load my collection into MMM it crashes.

not crash... it eats up alls CPU but it doesn't seem to lead anywhere.

...try one at a time?

...just to see if it will work at all...

yea. will do ... tonight (local time)

if it works, but other stuff doesn't, then it means the other stuff isn't playing nice, or being played nice with.

http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=7365455 - what do you think?

user?

cord: user?

the link is to a user who calls himself JT Bruce.

no, the link is to a edit regarding the artist JT Bruce

i think the link to an online community for JT Bruce should go to http://www.last.fm/group/JT+Bruce

hmm. interesting.

ah, ok. now i got your point. maybe, yes. that somewhat depends on the definition of a online community page

I'd be inclined to classify that as more along the lines of a personal hompage, rather than a community page, but... *shrug*

http://www.last.fm/group/JT+Bruce doesn't seem to match with what that AR was intended for afaik

while the there are communitytools. they are not on the users-page, and they are also not on the http://www.last.fm/music/JT+Bruce page.

just for clarification: the link is notet on http://musicbrainz.org/show/artist/?artistid=35.... i'm normally against linking such things on last.fm, doesn't provide any value and we could link verything as they used MB data at some point. but a link to an artist's personal profile might be of value

(ok, i didn'T check wht the intention of that AR was.

i think following this definition the link would be ok

Try to find the most active, or preferred page supported by someone involved with the artist or group. <--- thats the thing in question imho.

the problem on last.fm is that the group, the artist and the user, who happens to be the artist, are not realy connected

(and i think this is hard to tell. every artist without major-record-backing would be present on many platforms from Mysapce to eMusic.

comment added, voted no.

ask JT Bruce where they would like people to be pointed at as their 'OnlineCommunity' page? *shrug*

cord: i think that's not the point of this sentence. it just tells you to point to the most relevant page when there is more than one page on a specific community site

warp: OnlineCommunityRelationshipType says that artists often use there pages for that, it does not require the artists to do so

outsidecontext: I take it to mean that the whole point of the AR so to use it when artists do that.

I don't think that we want ARs to each fscking community that someone creates to support an artist.

warp: but it doesn't say that, that's a pretty strange interpretation.

cord: no, but perhaps to the pages the artist creates?

i think it makes a difference if it is the artist himself. that's the whole point of this AR

outsidecontext: it says "This relationship type can be used to link a MusicBrainz artist to their online community page.", then gives situations where/why you might want to do so.

outsidecontext: then those last.fm-group are out of bounds.

cord: that was what i said. not the group but http://www.last.fm/user/SubjectRuin/

the only 'community' thing on the user page is probably the shoutbox...

warp: yes, but it doesn't say anything about requiring the artist to not have a homepage. that doesn't make sense

I would think that the page would be better worded to point at the most active/preferred _site_, rather than page...

outsidecontext: i didn't say that.

in last.fm-terms that is a Userpage... and it is unknown if that one is really the artist.

outsidecontext: it says it can be "additionally to, their official homepage.".

iw wouldnt link to last.fm gruop artist or user

to be honnest

maybe that AR should be dropped... if an artist supports a communtiy there would be a link from the Homepage.

the point id don't get in this discussion (and that's the point I wanted to discuss) is, where there is the real difference between a MySpace profile page and an Last.fm profile page

the artist didnt "create" his userpage

the last.fm profile page is an userpage where the person listens to anytype of music

its not een necxesarrily to do ith her his music

outsidecontext: on myspace can artists upload their music

maybe they wanted ot be icongito for all we know

i li

and the comments look a little better than last.fm's shoutbox

outsidecontext: myspace provides much more flexibility in what you can change about your page, in that sense, it is far more likely to be used instead of an actual homepage. In addition, artists can put music up for listening or download on myspace.

catcat: you go to the site, you register, you get a page you can customize a little bit. that's so on myspace, last.fm and the example in the wiki

if i was an artiast, my last.fm page woudl in no way represent my artistry

just alot of other peoples music

wich is listen to

I*

catcat: ok, this makes maybe sense.

the whole point of last.fm is not 'my' music or 'my' space but 'music i like'

ding

hmm... I'd expect that if the artist thinks that their last.fm page is relevant to their music, they'd have a link to it from their homepage...

martin: i agree

i know an artist who's currently considering deleting his last.fm page, because it's too personal and doesn't reflect what he is as an artist :)

luks: we don't seem to require that music upload is neccesary. what about http://mirish.livejournal.com/profile

(he already created a new last.fm account using his real name, instead of his artist name)

hey, but thats a xomunitysite with a *blog*

thos id link to the blog itself ,not the profilepage

need a subtype 'has blog at'

outsidecontext: I mentioned that just as a example between myspace and last.fm

last.fm user pages are not about artists, they are about users

mo: second that need.

luks: ok, i think that last point is the important thing.

actually, last.fm doesn't even really have pages about artists...

except maybe groups

luks: i know a band that tried to conquer "their" artist page. the admins were not amused

exactly

But beside providing free music and editing the text on top, there isn't much to do.

I've seen quite a few pages that were 'taken over' by the labels

even if they are shared by multiple artists

cord: i'm strictly against linking to the group or artist pages. they don't have much value, as i said above

outsidecontext: yup.

i still not fully convinced about the artist's user page, though. but i see your points

there are thre 'no's now ;-)

cord: i saw it. clear result.

maybe we should clarify OnlineCommunityRelationshipType then

hma has a good point about why last.fm groups arent a good link

we shoud lcarify it, yesh

outsidecontext: yea. that last.fm had and has again a deal with MB to get Info, makes it even more worthless to link...

maybe a last.fm-AR to the music-page would be an idea, so it is possible to listen to related music there.

Cord: i hope that gets implemented soon :)

ouch.

I think this is a good example why we shouldn't have AR for last.fm/music pages

hmm... for the vast majority of artists, wouldn't this be something that could be auto-generated, only needing an AR when you have to disambiguate between multiple artists with the same name?

wtf, 56 ....

some people are just creative with their tags :)

yay! for different ways of entering the same thing...

this is where last.fm really sucks

hmm... out of interest, does anyone know how many artists we've got which have the same name?

5617

and Angel is the most used one - 19

Thanks everyone :)

congrats! :)

<luks> I've seen quite a few pages that were 'taken over' by the labels even if they are shared by multiple artists

g'mornin, brianfreud.

Kicking the asses of people who do that is my specialty there.

Well, besides beating up MySpacers ;-)

morning MartinRudat, luks :)

hmm... looking at the page for the tag 'Artist', you woudln't need 5617 disambiguation links... you'd need to specify which sense you mean for 5617 artists...

bah. Angel, it's not that hard to type...

why did I type 'Artist' instead?

oh, maybe I misunderstood the question

5617 is the number of 'artist names' that are shared by more than one artist

oh, I see.

One thing I was getting confused on as I read through the backscroll above - it seemed you were talking about pages for "Artists" rather than an actual user's page. But then the mention of a artist deleting his own userpage confused me... surely noone wants to link to actual *user* pages at last.fm, only artist pages?

Very minimum.

10,000+ wouldn't surprise me.

brian: outsidecontext did want to link an actual artist's user page.

eg Nirvana, at least 4 bands all squeezed into 1 page at last.fm... (some nice wars as a result...)

I wonder if this means that I should see if I can't convince something to give me 'Nirvana (band from seattle)' rather than just 'Nirvana'...

MartinRudat: That I would definately say no way... There's a certain point where I think we cross the line between "public" info and "private" info. I know there's a few editors who are active in here who don't like anyone to know their last.fm nicks ...

...or whatever the comment actually is.

I don't want anyone to know who I am on last.fm. ;-)

brian: depends on if the artist themselves goes 'Look over there!' or not, I'd think... if it was done via judicious application of google, and a little detective work, that would be wrong though, imo.

As for linking to last.fm, if it's permitted, I'd be against anything other than direct links to the artist page ( http://last.fm/music/[artistname] ). Users can be banned/delete themselves, groups can die off, but the artist page remains.

well, say Trent Reznor is ghoemtslr at last.fm. His page doesn't id him, it's not linked from his site, but someone figures out that is his nick. Seems some info ought to remain private unless publicsized by the *artist* (ArtistIntent? lol)

luks: Will my open edits get themselves out of the way, or do I have to approve them out of the way?

brianfreud: they won't

oh fun

so please approve the obvious ones, if you have time :)

HairMetalAddict: Yes it was you who reverted the Tremors page :-)