#musicbrainz

it'd be better to add appropriate AR links for the time being

HMA: There are about 3000 people who edited/voted on MB data last week. How do you guage concensus over 3000 people?

It's hard enough when you have three people.

i think it's almost analagous to removal of additionaltrackinformation and etc

it's just not time yet

I'm all for an alternative to "feat.", but until one is actually made available in MB (and not this "we'll make two groups mix as one group" crap), it's the best thing for the moment.

right, i agree

well, that's what i said, so i'm being redundant

but, yeah

HMA: This is a better stepping stone to *getting* to that solution.

No, kid. You explain how something became "implemented" without even a consensus from the few people who actually have the time to dive through that mess known as mb-style list?

adding AR's makes it easy to convert to a better DB schema in the future

rodbegbie: it's not it's doing the second before the first step, and as you can see, you stumble if you try to walk like this

inhouseuk: Right. And the new combined artists have ARs attached. Which can be used down the road.

HMA: There is no process now. It's broken. There is no agreed way to make decisions with MB.

And all the modwars in the world won't fix that.

Then how was a decision made? Like I said, there is no decision made.

HMA: A Style Council member edited the wiki. And that was it.

HMA: That is, currently, all it takes to change the style guide.

who (for the lazy)?

rodbegbie: I mean't add AR's but leave the tracks as they are !

Don't remember. Zout, I think.

yeah: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/FeaturingArtistStyl...

Well, that explains a lot. Wasn't someone just calling for his removal of automod earlier...

rodbegbie: don't move them to silly combined bogus artists

inhouseuk, don't just say it, no-vote it. He's got a motherload of this crap being voted on at the moment...

inhouseuk: The problem is that the current ARs don't capture all the information.

The just say "Person B performed Track X"

i think the issue ought to be sorted out by active developers

and not users

HMA said it before, but just to repeat, it is not a style issue

ojnkpjg: Agreed. And if you lok at the list of people who voted, there are developers there who voted for the change.

G0llum, for example, who is the person doing most of the work on teh Artist page redo.

rodbegbie: yeah, he edited one page, the "OfficialStyleGuideline" page still has the old version, the guideline page on the site tells me to use the old version, and even the changed page doesn't have the status "OfficialStyleGuidline"

ojnkpjg: Also should be voting: The aying customers of MB.

that's true

*paying

someone mentioned that earlier

(on irc)

Knio-school is now known as Knio

maybe a 300th mailing list is needed for things like this

"mb-important"

hehehe

mb-no-*really*-important

fair enough

mb-your-metadata-may-be-at-risk-if-you-dont-pay-attention

and then cross-post everything between all of them :)

oh, well.

i think we all want the same thing, really

so maybe it's best to rethink things somewhere where more people are involved

yeah. i think that's the biggest pain to me here.

it's hard to get everyone's attention at once

I was attempting to push this through, because it seemed that *most* people were for it.

quick off topic question, luks you there?

I was annoyed that a couple of nay-sayers kept the discussion spiralling round.

yllona: yes

yeah, and there was a mailing list flood

which turned people (me, at least) off

Yeah, it's a hard balance.

yes

Somewhere between "We need people to consider this", but not "we need people to drown in boring details"

for musicals, should i make the title [year, original broadway cast/world premiere recording] or is that only necessary for revivals?

maybe write-up competing proposals in the wiki then post something on one of th emany mailing lists and irc asking people for feedback?

"We need people to be well informed", but not "We need everyone to understand the intricicies of PostgreSql" :)

ojnkpjg -- that's what I was trying to do.

THat's where that wiki page came from.

ok

you lost me when you started asking for +1 and -1, though

Hence my feelings that HMA can go suck a tailpipe :)

ojnkpjg -- that was just an attempt to see if I could introduce process where there was none.

Kind-of sort-of worked in that the vote turned out in my favour :)

But I think that was mostly because the people who actually cared were willing to go through the debate

it's just a very silly and bad way of deciding something so important

It works for the Apache group.

I've seen it used on a number of mailing lists, and if everyone's bought-in it works well.

i'd rather see people sign off on the wiki proposal page, or something

MB needs a decent bug/issue tracking system.

Anyways.

I need to get on with some work now.

Laters

yes, this mess made that much clear

bye

yllona: sorry, i really don't know a much about musicals.

okay, that's my prefrence, and I add the year to the title of all my movie and musical soundtracks, esp important because of all the revival/re-makes

but i wanted to make sure of the MB guidelines

I hate TVs without subtitles

3 no-bombers so far vs. Trongersoll and some nobody's yes-bombs

HairMetalAddict: see my comment on http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=3718693, using AR is the way to represent multiple artists on tracks. This solves the .feat problem and most of the coding has been done already. AR just needs to be searchable and used by the tagger libraries. We already have a 1:n solution, it just isn't used properly yet :)

it just needs more integrating

some nobody

mmm, if AR could be used in tagger libs and search and such, it would be a good alternative to "feat."

But we're not there yet. And this whole mixing artists situation isn't going to help it.

Had to leave the comp a bit. My gf needed some... er, attention.

HMA: Puncture?

Dude's got the IQ of a milk bone...

HairMetalAddict: and it only took half and hour? I normally have to dedicate a whole evening to my wife :)

Hehe, 45 minutes since my last post. Half an hour responding after yours. ;-)

And the night is still young... :-P

yeah... only because you can't get divorced if you're not married

Exactly! You win mo's chocolate!

hmm?

chocomo is now known as _mo

:(

HairMetalAddict: do you agree with me on this? http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=3718829

:-P

only cus its white choco

backagain.

I agree that is definitely a link to a mod. ;-)

HairMetalAddict: I mean my comments!

hehe... looking...

Yup, more zout crap.

might I suggest that the IRC-bound no-voting quorum consider taking this discussion to a list.

rather than just being petulant.

and might I suggest you drop the attitude? :p

I always thought mo's mods were counter-productive

but he was following the SG, so it was hard to argue.

well ditto if we're beign honnest

Now the SG has changed. Whether you like it or not.

SO either a) go along with it

rodbegbie: I will, I've only just subcribed to mb-style

b) try to get it changed back

its a "change" that sould never have been "implemnented"

or c) stop voting on the mods

says you.

many people said it *should* be implemented.

who?

mo -- you're a member of the Style Council are you not.

show me one person

look at the wiki page.

thats not you or zout

rodbegbie: what is the procedure for changing styleguides?

there isn't one

that's the problem.

Then there's no way it could have changed.

and that is our beef with that hole tying